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darkreaver

Ceiling lights in hell-maps

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Ello!

First off, I`m not entirely sure what forum to post this in, but since I`m talking about WADs in general I chose WADs and MODs. Any moderator may feel free to move the thread to the right forum if needed.

I`m currently mapping on a hell themed map, and it hit me: what shall I use for ceiling lights? What are you using?

I know many wads use techbase lights (for example Speed of Doom, which I just watched a demo of, and it made me make this thread.). I`m considering trying it out, but...hmmm, I`m not sure I want to mix up torches/hell/castle/medieval with electric-looking lights.

In my previous maps I have simply used lava-stone and open sky in the roofs. I think, hehe, cant remember, and wont bother open the maps to check it out, but I know I haven`t used "lamps".

Any original ideas out there? Examples?

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Couple options for you:

1. Ceiling lava pits. Might not make sense, but oh well, this is Doom.

2. Some sort of hellish crystallized growths on the ceiling that "give off" light.

3. Don't bother with ceiling lights.

4. If sprite replacements are an option, you could even try editing some sprites into "ceiling lights". Creepy upside-down torches, skull chandeliers, floating fire, etc.

Really, there's isn't a whole lot you can do, but if you don't mind a bit of insanity, I think the above ideas could work well.

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1: yeah, I`m experimenting with that, and I think it looks kinda cool if used right, so I think I`ll be going for some of that. Also going to try out blood and nukage.

3: Hehe, yeah, but I WANT to do something else that just floor placed and wall-lights.

Well well, maybe I`ll come up with something, but I`ll use some lava for sure

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You can always use goth light textures, they can fit quite well.

Actual techbase lighting may fit provided if you have a theme of meshing hell with technology. (Otherwise you can make it look as if though they are portable lights and the monsters were sick of lurking in the dark and just asked for the electrician to install in some :P)

You can use lava as suggested and create gradient of light fading from the source, which looks pretty nifty.

Apart from ceiling lights, certainly use candlebras (or whatever it's spelt) for lighting gradients. Also use flaming barrels as they are useful as well. It's always nice to have that combination of lightings from ceilings and sprites. Tech lamps can work in hell maps. Just a matter of experimenting countless of times. :P

I think I might've just parroted out simple ideas, but what the hell.. good luck with the map! :P

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There are some goth-textures in the CC4 pack (which I`m using since this map is for CC4, and I have no idea how to add custom textures), but I`m not sure I like them hehe! Well, I`ll at least try!

Barrels looks too...not hellish for me, but on the other hand I don`t mind healthpacks, ammopacks, ammoboxes and lots of weapons laying around :P How ironic.

I think I`ve got everything down when it comes to ground based lighting. I`m really fond of the fan-shaped gradient light from torches set in walls and stuff like that, so no worries there.

I just thought of a prime example: many mappers seem to be fond of using LITE5/3 together with MARBFACE and in doorways. I DO like it myself, but on the other hand, as stated, I`dont want to mix in techbase stuff. I think :P

Anyways, thanks, it`s coming along pretty well so far :)

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Yeah there's nothing wrong from mixing technology style lights in hell themed levels. After all, all the bosses of hell are very integrated with technology (cyberdemon with prosthetic leg + rocket launcher, spiderdemon with robotic body, bossbrain with cables/pipes and computer screens).

That said, a lot of people's vision of hell stems from Dante's Inferno or Milton's Paradise Lost, where it's all tombs and torches and whips and not cloning vats and lamps and rocket launchers. Therefore maps that are totally medieval and low technology also look cool.

And Earthquake...
"4. If sprite replacements are an option, you could even try editing some sprites into "ceiling lights". Creepy upside-down torches, skull chandeliers, floating fire, etc."

I've never seen this done before, sounds like it needs to be done immediately haha. My favorite Icarus level was that map "Flipside". Sounds like you need to take it a step further with this idea now.

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Yeah I guess you guys are right. But...hmmm, I think I`m going for "pure hell" in this one also, and try to experiment alot more in my next map instead. Just playing safe for now hehe :)

The funny thing is I haven`t had any use for ceiling lights so far into the map :S (But I will when I get to map more indoor stuff or bigger caves.

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If you are going for a pure hell look what are the ceiling lights for? I assume by pure hell you mean like some kinda red rock cave. Are you looking for some type of light source? Candles, torches, and holes in the ceiling revealing the sky are probably your best bet. I suppose you could potentially use teleport flats protruding out of the ceiling as a light source. I did that in a map I made for 32in24-9 but that was more of a gothic themed map.

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Yeah I was thinking of teleport flats. I`m going to try that out. As long as I use one consistent color for the real teleports, or at least make them stand out from those which are just light sources.

By "pure hell" I mean no tech stuff at all. It will contain buildings though (like castle/fortress/temples/altars). Ceiling lights are not necessary, but I do want some :)

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For straight hell rock I wouldn't use lighting flats, but for gothic stuff, instead of having a ceiling light flat, up the ceiling in certain areas and put in come stain glass windows in there (gothictx has 5-6 of em) and try to use textures that will make it seem like it's recessed instead of part of a wall, or you can put in pillars to recess them into if you have the room to spare.

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It's Hell, it doesn't have to make any sense. You could just as well have no visible source of light at all, pretend that there's an invisible spiritual presence giving off light or something.

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Jodwin said:

It's Hell, it doesn't have to make any sense. You could just as well have no visible source of light at all, pretend that there's an invisible spiritual presence giving off light or something.


Indeed! I have already done that in one place so far.

(I`m really making progress now. I`m on a roll! 3300 linedefs, 5700 sidedefs and 550 sectors so far, and I started yesterday! Thats NOT typical for me hehe)

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They're the result of an occupational health and safety lawsuit.

Red-hot lava (in pools or cascading down walls) should be adequate for interior lighting in most cases, they might look a bit odd on the ceiling but I suppose we can't expect Hell to adhere to all the laws of physics.

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Jodwin said:

It's Hell, it doesn't have to make any sense. You could just as well have no visible source of light at all, pretend that there's an invisible spiritual presence giving off light or something.


"Lucifer" does mean "light bringer".

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There's a couple of CEIL flats that look suitably gothic enough to be lights anywhere in Doom, as they are metal bars with light coming from behind them, usually set in metal or wood. Having those protruding from the ceiling gives the effect that they're boxed in light fixtures - inset looks more like grilles up to a brighter place.

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Something organic could work out pretty well too, maybe some kind of flesh on the ceiling that gives off light or has things embedded in it that gives off light. Also, Jodwin's got a pretty good point there. Pretty sure Hell would pretty much spit on logic and wouldn't give a fuck about what we consider normal.

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Yeah, the topic is in a gray area but I'm moving it to Editing because you're asking for ideas for your mod, as opposed to just examining what ceilings existing and specific WADs use.

darkreaver said:
I know many wads use techbase lights (for example Speed of Doom, which I just watched a demo of, and it made me make this thread.). I`m considering trying it out, but...hmmm, I`m not sure I want to mix up torches/hell/castle/medieval with electric-looking lights.

Heh, I think many authors start to use them in hell when they consider the number of stimpacks found around their level. (Tech stuff in hell makes a bit more sense than that.) Since monsters are walking around with weapons or mechanic implants, adding some tech elements starts to make sense. If you add them in other ways than just ceiling lights, the ceiling lights will not look out of place. You could still make some "fully natural" sections, but adding tech stuff will allow more variety.

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I just came up with (what I consider) an fantastic idea :P I dont know if its been done before, and I sure as hell dont know if I can pull it off.

Anyway, there are lots of ideas in this thread, and in my next map, I`ll have no second thoughts about adding more "hi-tech" stuff.
I do find it weird with torches and tech-lamps (the sprites) side by side though :P (yeah yeah, I know its Doom and I know its Hell, but... :P ) I`m all in for the use of different lite textures and flats from now on though. 3 of my 4 maps (including this one) are all the same, so its time for someething fresh (for me)!

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Well, you can (if you target Eternity and/or ZDoom-compatible ports).

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Gez said:

Well, you can (if you target Eternity and/or ZDoom-compatible ports).

Or in Boom, create floor/ceiling versions for FIREBLU and an ANIMATED lump. Or employ conveyor and trigger model trickery if ANIMATED not allowed. But why go through all this trouble, when more elegant is to place FIREBLU on cracks' sides on the ceiling, and another flashy ceiling at the top of the cracks?

Another ceiling idea: white/yellow animated fissures of plasma into the ceiling. Make them span across multiple flats like that satan ground texture, and probably make them symmetrical.

Or use lighted runes -- easy to print into the base texture with a graphic editor. Some novel authors use those as signs of magic happening. Often used for lighting. Try not to make them resemble big LEDs though.

Vorpal said:

Creepy upside-down torches, skull chandeliers, floating fire, etc."

I've never seen this done before, sounds like it needs to be done immediately haha.

It's my idea then. Me quick, before someone else releases a map using it...

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Yea, custom animated flats would have been cool. No chance in hell I`ll do it though. Dont even know how to add a regular texture. XWE and stuff like that makes me scared. :(

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Doom Marine said:

what the fuck are ceiling lights doing in hell what the fuck


how do the demons expect the doom guy to kill them all if he cant see anything

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