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doomlevels

maximum doom

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Are you sure this is even allowed? Also I'm sure the majority of the levels on this shovelware CD are already on /Idgames/

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This was posted to the steam forums previously and was not moderated. The link expired and I am reuploading it here because I figured I'd get more traffic here being a doom forum. Its legal because like you said most of them are on idgames anyway. Some of these levels are not on the mirror and are probably not archived anywhere except the maximum doom collection.


EDIT
If this is warez then the idgames archive is warez.
Maximum doom was an ftp scrape of idgames and a couple other WAD sites done circa 1996.
This does NOT include the master levels or final doom or anything trademarked by ID.

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Well, they were released in a copyrighted collection that was sold by id. I'm no expert on such things though, so if the contents of that CD fall under some loophole that allows them to be freely redistributed then it's all good.

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I doubt it was thoroughly checked for items like copyrighted sound packs that were popular in the early days (not that you'd miss much, unless you enjoy hearing Beavis and Butthead going "huh huh, huh huh huh" each time you pick something).

And there may still be the oddball E1M1 modification in there, or "gems" like DMINATOR.WAD

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There is no loophole. These are WADs collected from places like the IDGAMES archive. They were always freely distributable, that's how ID was able to put them on a CD in the first place. If they were not freely distributable in the first place ID would have had to get permission from all the different authors of the roughly 2000 WADs contained in this collection. Obviously that would not be feasible.
If you remember, around 1995 or 1996 there were a lot of these WAD collections were being given away with books like tricks of the doom gurus. or sold through legitimate businesses. This would have been impossible if they were not freely distributable.

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doomlevels said:

...They were always freely distributable, that's how ID was able to put them on a CD in the first place. If they were not freely distributable in the first place ID would have had to get permission from all the different authors of the roughly 2000 WADs contained in this collection.


In this collection and other shovelware collections, didn't the sellers not include a bunch of text files? Text files that were supposed to be included with their wads. And in many cases, I think they modified some "Do not modify" wads to make them compatible with Doom 2 and add the Supershotgun and Doom 2 enemies.

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You're mixing your facts up. ID hardly ever made such shovelware collections with WADs downloaded off the internet, or had anything to do with maintaining idgames itself, and especially during those first years there has been a lot of not-so-legit stuff uploaded (I already made some examples in the previous posts. Even if there's one modified E1M1 or Disney sound sample in there, it can delegitimize the whole thing).

Now, THAT sort of "content" has been for the most part sanitized from the idgames archive you see today, but it may still linger on such collections.

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The maximum doom collection includes the original *.txt files for all the WADs. It was released on the Depths of Doom trilogy sold commercially by ID. It is shovelware but ID did include this in some compliations. I can't find the link but I remember reading a post by romero or carmack about seeing all the shovelware collections and releasing one of thier own included with the Master levels.

@Maes I thought this was levels only. I Figured ID would have parsed the content for things like sound packs. On further inspection it seems like there might be a few sound files included here. IANAL but you would think sound recordings (Even directly recorded from TV shows) would be fair use.

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doomlevels said:

IANAL but you would think sound recordings (Even directly recorded from TV shows) would be fair use.


In theory, yes. However Disney's lawyers (among others) have been known to contact idgames maintainers for removal of such content. And a clause that came AFTER 1996 (I think) prohibited users from using ID levels as a base (however the infamous DMINATOR.WAD isn't there).

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I know lawyers send takedown notices for things like that all the time (See the warning issued for the dancing baby video on Youtube which had a Prince song playing in the background.) it doesn't make them right. Just because they sent the idgames archive a takedown notice and they complied, does not mean that it's illegal to distribute say, a sound file with clips from Bambi. Besides it doesn't look like there are any Disney related WADs. As far as other IPs theres a Simpsons DOOM patch and Monty Python patch in here which also happen to be on the idgames mirror currently.

Now as far as modification to IDs levels like e1m1, I cant speak for the entire collection, but the several I've tried are not modified versions of real levels. If anyone finds any WADs are hacks of offical levels then I will delete those and reupload the whole thing.


EDIT: Forgot to proofread :)

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doomlevels said:

Just because they sent the idgames archive a takedown notice and they complied, does not mean that it's illegal to distribute say, a sound file with clips from Bambi.


I am amused by your understanding of copyright laws.

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Gez said:

I am amused by your understanding of copyright laws.

When the average person grossly misunderstands a law applicable in daily life, there's either something wrong with the law or the education system (or both). Lawyers and politicians are the ones who profit from confusing laws.

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I am amused by YOUR understanding of copyright laws. You can send a takedown notice for anything you want, and the recipient of that notice can comply if it wants. It doesn't mean its not fair use. Hell I could send a takedown notice to a website from my own personal yahoo e-mail address saying I am the owner of such and such copyright, and you know what? They would most likely take it down even though they might have every right to keep the content up. Just because they send you a takedown notice doesn't mean you are violating copyright.

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Glass Rook said:

Sounds like warez.

So what? Most of it is free content, and is good for historical value anyway.

How come this shit is only 75.5 MB? Did they waste a CD for that?

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printz said:

So what?


My bad. Usually you guys jump all over such links to external downloads of retail items with a multitude of reasons why they're wrong. I was just following the examples I've been given. I was unaware that some of them are acceptable.

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Glass Rook said:
Usually you guys jump all over such links to external downloads of retail items with a multitude of reasons why they're wrong.

Maximum Doom was a ton of levels taken from idgames and other places on the Internet as id's way of competing with similar products like D!Zone.

It just happened to be on the same disk as the Master Levels, which is a commercial product. If these levels were included in the download then yeah, it'd be warez...

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Exactly. That's why I was careful to only upload the maximum doom directory and not the Master Levels, which are NOT free to distribute.

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Hypocrites! Screaming WAREZ over some old ass doom wads while your torrent client downloads 10 movies, a ton of books and the latest version of Fraps!

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Twinzen said:

Hypocrites! Screaming WAREZ over some old ass doom wads while your torrent client downloads 10 movies, a ton of books and the latest version of Fraps!


Just trying to do as the Romans do while I'm here in Rome.

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The good news is I haven't spotted any Master Levels wads, the bad news is most of the Maximum Doom wads are already in the archives. Of those that aren't - some contain copyrighted content, many are conversions of Doom1 maps (a common practice with shovelware collections) and most are missing text files.

Maes said:
And a clause that came AFTER 1996 (I think) prohibited users from using ID levels as a base (however the infamous DMINATOR.WAD isn't there).

It's in the Doom2 directory as DMINATO2.WAD.

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doomlevels said:

The Maximum DOOM wads are about 400 MB uncompressed. 7-zip compressed it down to ~75 megs.


Hah, to much for me to download...

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I actually didnt spy the DMINATO2.WAD. Only searched for DMINATOR.WAD Hahaha

No shit most of it's on the Idgames archive. This was uploaded for historical value. It's not like any of us don't know where to get WADs to play with. Or DVDrips... or games... or music... or porn...

Anyway, the conversions are OK, no different than changing format for a movie or music. Even DMINATO2.WAD is probably changed enough to be a derivative, or even satire, and therefore legal regardless of what ID says.

The beavis and butthead or simpsons or anything else with copyrighted audio or graphics is fair use period. Its not like anyone ripped video clips of significant length.

Besides its FUCKING 2010. Its not like I uploaded XBOX360 scene rips. I register here and post this on my day off trying to be a nice guy and half of everyone shits their pants about it. When this was posted on the steam forums (http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=775407)
, everyone was thankful and *GULP* it wasn't even moderated. When I post this in a DOOM forum thinking people would be a little appreciative everyone cries like a little girl.

Just shut the fuck up about it and download it, or don't, and go play Halo Reach, no one cares.

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doomlevels said:

When I post this in a DOOM forum thinking people would be a little appreciative everyone cries like a little girl.

Just shut the fuck up about it and download it, or don't, and go play Halo Reach, no one cares.


You'll be surprised at the amount of "new to the scene" wannabe Doomers that end up ragequitting DW totally butthurt, after giving us the "Your(sic) a bunch of losers that play a 20 year old game cuz you're (sic) computer sucks ass get a life I no go jakk off kthx" speech, after a single day -or at most two- of posting here.

Seems you just failed your hazing, newbie.

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doomlevels said:

Besides its FUCKING 2010. Its not like I uploaded XBOX360 scene rips. I register here and post this on my day off trying to be a nice guy and half of everyone shits their pants about it.

2010 or not, corporate copyrights last a long time (in the US it's 95 years from publication or 120 years from creation (whichever is shorter) for works made for hire and published since 1978) and few - if any - of us will still be around when Doom, Beavis & Butthead or the Simpsons are finally copyright-free. The forum admin's have a zero tolerance policy when it comes to warez (which often enough results in the poster being losered or banned) and the Maximum Mods are from a CD which is known to contain wads that aren't freely distributable so you have to expect the locals to be a little wary.

You at least had the good sense to omit the Master Levels.

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He actually seems to go through the usual stages of grief of the K├╝bler-Ross model:

  1. Denial
  2. Anger
  3. Bargaining
  4. Depression
  5. Acceptance
We've already seen denial and anger...will he be around for us to see bargaining, depression and acceptance? :-p

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