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PaganRaven

Marathon, Hexen

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I'm sick of people calling Marathon "The Mac's Doom" and Hexen "Medieval Doom". They're good enough (even better than doom, in fact) to be considered their own standalone games and not knockoffs of Doom. Now go to Xibalba, you UAC hell-obsessed shotgun zombies D=

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I've never heard either phrase before, but okay!

But better than Doom?

MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

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Exactly! Hexen isn't medieval DOOM; Heretic is! Well, actually, I kind of hate Heretic. Hexen was good and indeed very different. I have no opinion on Marathon because I have never played it.

Hexen, however, is not better than DOOM. No way.

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I love Marathon's storytelling and atmosphere, but I haven't gotten into it enough to love the gameplay (read: Get the shotgun. I'm guessing that's a big turning point.) I need to finish Durandal and then check out Infinity.

I would have loved to have seen some of Tom Hall's ideas brought to life for Doom's setting and story.

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EarthQuake said:

But better than Doom?

MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Fanboy.

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Aliotroph? said:

Exactly! Hexen isn't medieval DOOM; Heretic is!

If by "medieval" you mean "fantasy setting that has absolutely no similarity at all with any medieval period of any continent of Earth", then yes.

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Gez said:

If by "medieval" you mean "fantasy setting that has absolutely no similarity at all with any medieval period of any continent of Earth", then yes.

The so-called city of the damned does look medieval to me, especially E1M4...

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Marathon is a nice idea with shit controls though it did 'invent' the rocket jump. Hexen is Doom in slow motion. The end. :P

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jez said:
If by "medieval" you mean "fantasy setting that has absolutely no similarity at all with any medieval period of any continent of Earth", then yes.

printz said:

The so-called city of the damned does look medieval to me, especially E1M4...

I think you're right here. I guess a more accurate term would be "Dungeons and Dragons Doom", but I never heard anybody say that.

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PaganRaven said:

calling Marathon "The Mac's Doom"

People still do that? I have the Ultimate Doom for Mac OS Classic. It barely runs on my Performa 6220CD though.

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Per-Scan said:

Marathon is a nice idea with shit controls though it did 'invent' the rocket jump. Hexen is Doom in slow motion. The end. :P

Marathon and ROTT both invented the vertical rocket jump. They were released on the same day.

[/rott-fan-boy]

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Partition36 said:

Marathon and ROTT both invented the vertical rocket jump. They were released on the same day.

[/rott-fan-boy]


So it's official then. Marathon is the Mac's ROTT! :P Well that's that one sorted!

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Marathon is a pretty shitty Doom-clone: animation, graphics and physics is shit, weapon selection and the controls is shit... its a veritable turd-burger: bun, shit, shit, shit, more shit and a bun, delivered in a nice sci-fi story wrapping.

(I´d expect nothing less than the above myself, if i went to a Marathon-forum (hopefully there is no such thing?!) saying DooM is superior to Marathon)

Sorry for random (shitty) post!

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Lifetime Mac user here. Got the Marathon demo and the Doom demo as a kid, when they were new. Bought Doom 2 as soon as I could get it, and remembered Marathon as that weird game with the poorly-drawn enemies that looked like mutant old ladies hitting you with umbrellas. Tried Marathon again recently and couldn't get into it at all; the level design confuses the hell out of me, and the art direction is horrific.

Doom is the Mac's Doom.

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As a standalone game, Hexen is better than Doom. If you factor in the mods available for each game then definitely not.

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AndrewB said:

As a standalone game, Hexen is better than Doom. If you factor in the mods available for each game then definitely not.


Yes and no. It depends on how you like your game: Blatant but fun Shoot 'em up game (Doom), or slower paced, thrilling, puzzle based, and still fun shoot 'em up (or Punch 'em up game for the Fighter class) type game (HeXen). Pick one.

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Marathon was the game that introduced me to the concept of first person shooter, akimbo pistols, having to reload, secondary fire, and fisting enemies with both hands instead of my left. I guess I have that to thank for. Oh, and psychotic AIs.

Hexen sounded interesting when I first read about it. Character classes, different weapons, portable inventory, hubs, that sort of thing. Unfortunately, I had bought the N64 version which had a seriously cumbersome control scheme. It was so goddamn frustrating doing things that would be simple with a keyboard/mouse combo, and the 15-second transition between levels certainly didn't help the hubs feel like a coherent, interconnected world. For years I just plain hated the game.

Then I played Korax Mod and Serpent Resurrection. Wow! Big fucking change from that piece of shit N64 version. It was actually fun and enjoyable, like a game is supposed to be. I guess I shouldn't be so harsh on the N64 version, given its limited controls and the N64's specs.

I still hate those damn torso-wide impale traps, though.

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I didn't think that the art in Marathon was horrific, it was a different style than Doom's though (more cartoony). The game was kind of weird game play wise, but its fun after you get used to the controls. I'd also say that the engine was more advanced than Doom's, if had the "deep water" effect and some other cool stuff.

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bgraybr said:

I didn't think that the art in Marathon was horrific, it was a different style than Doom's though (more cartoony). The game was kind of weird game play wise, but its fun after you get used to the controls. I'd also say that the engine was more advanced than Doom's, if had the "deep water" effect and some other cool stuff.

In some ways, yeah. It had some extra features and gimmicky stuff. But in other ways, Doom's engine still came out on top: for instance, all sectors in Marathon were required to be convex, and you could only have something like 16 (I think?) sectors onscreen at a time. If you thought vanilla Doom 1.9's 128 visplane/256 drawseg limit was bad...

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esselfortium said:

In some ways, yeah. It had some extra features and gimmicky stuff. But in other ways, Doom's engine still came out on top: for instance, all sectors in Marathon were required to be convex, and you could only have something like 16 (I think?) sectors onscreen at a time. If you thought vanilla Doom 1.9's 128 visplane/256 drawseg limit was bad...


Didn't know that, explains the awkwardly shaped rooms and the square architecture.

Do you know if the original games had scripting? I know that the source port does, but it might have been added. Some of the events in the game seem kind if scripted.

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If I remember correctly, it had a unified "Media" system in which each polygon (the Marathon equivalent of Doom's subsectors, which are what you drew to make maps) was allowed to have a list of effects applied to it. I think it applied to objects too, but in a somewhat more limited regard.

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Comparing Marathon to Doom is both fair and unfair at the same time. Yes they were both early FPS games, and by comparing the Doom community and the Marathon community you can clearly see which one came out on top, but it is also unfair as Marathon focused on a different area than Doom did, Storyline.

Marathon had a excellent Sci-fi story, and chose to focus around that. Doom took the other method, and went with gameplay.

Everyone has there own thoughts and opinions about what is "better" but Marathon had one fault. It required you to read a'lot to fully understand and enjoy it, and not everyone wants to spend time reading walls of text when playing a game. Doom in comparison was mostly run and gun and didn't need any text or storyline to make the game enjoyable. That right there appeal's much more to gamers than running about reading terminals.

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Ugh... Marathon is available to download through a program called AlphaOne. Works on all PCs. Even Vista, surprisingly. However, I don't, like everyone else here, care much for the Marathon games. It's slow, you float rather then fall, no med kits when you need them, confusing level design, and reptitious enemies. The XBLA version, sucks. Nuff said.

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The name for the Marathon Source Port would be "Aleph One", not "AlphaOne", and it works on PC, Mac, and Linux.

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