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Sigvatr

Doom 4 to be in the classic Doom style?

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I was reading this tid bit about Doom 4:

"The game is neither a sequel to Doom 3 nor a new beginning of the franchise..."

Do you think this could mean that Doom 4 will use the styling, imagery and perhaps even the gameplay of the original?

I would blow John Carmack's cock if it has fast diagonal movement.

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How do you expect Doom 4 to recreate an original Doom feeling? I really doubt it can be done.

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Sigvatr said:

I would blow John Carmack's cock if it has fast diagonal movement.

I can't say for sure, but we can probably assume that John Carmack's cock only moves in the usual directions.

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John Carmack interviewed by The Escapist...

Carmack said the game would be "significantly different" in a recent interview with Shacknews, admitting that complaints about the "contrived nature of monsters hiding in a closet" in Doom 3 as well as the game's extreme darkness were "completely valid." As a result, Doom 4 will be more akin to Doom 2 than to its direct predecessor.

"One of the things that I come to in my limited contributions to the whole Doom 4 design process is, it has to still be you beating down the bad guys," Carmack said. "It has to be a triumph of heavy weaponry over demonic forces in some way, and you have to be blowing demons all to hell around you, and it's a more positive side of things there."


It probably won't completely capture the essence of what made Doom great, but if this works the way he says then it should at least be a lot more fun than Doom 3 was. I worry it'll turn out to be more of a generic FPS than an effective follow-up in the Doom series, but who knows? (The article made no mention as to the movements of John Carmack's cock.)

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I worry it will basically be Painkiller. Which, don't get me wrong, wasn't a terrible game, but the whole "Kill some dudes, go to the next room, repeat" that the game had going was pretty boring (and really there were only a handful of levels in that game where the amazing atmosphere really saved the ultimately boring and repetitive gameplay). If it keeps the admittedly awesome atmosphere of Doom 3 but goes with a more fast-paced gameplay of the original Dooms, it could probably do well.

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In my opinion, in order to truly capture what made/makes Doom so great is for the editing aspect of the game to be easily accessible and simple enough for just about anyone to pick up with a little practice. Unfortunately, that's an impossibility with modern games due to how totally complex game development has become.

For example with Doom 3, it's taken a team of 16+ people to create an episode of levels for the game (talking about Phobos here)... and it's still not done. Compare that to the classic Doom games, where a single person could create an episode of high quality maps in a couple weeks' time.

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If it looked like this, with better graphics, then you might as well be running prboom+. But if it had awesome level design like E1M7 and E1M6, then I would play it, they need to analyse what made classic Ep1 so good to play and put that into the design.

The original game had quite cool maps, and they need more brightly lit outdoor areas.

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Will it have a straightforward no-shit gameplay with huge fun factor potential? Maybe. Will the id guys have time, inspiration, motivation to design interesting levels fulfilling that potential? Less so.

I think Doom 4 will have post-bombardment buildings with photorealistic brick and plaster textures for walls, and imps/cacodemons haunting around or keeping civilians hostage (or prone to zombiefying). There may be living cops helping you, but prone to turning on you. Lots of show-off post-Rage idtech 5 eyecandy too. Why not: car driving smashing imps. It would have been done already with Rage, why not Doom 4 too.

In short: there would be enough differences from Doom 2, probably many not tasted too well by classic Doomers.

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@printz: sounds too similar to Duke Nukem 3D, only without the aliens and with Fallout elements.

Actually, ask yourself this: if ID had the possibility of implementing a game with the exact same gameplay as Doom but with Doom 3 -or better- style visuals without ANY performance penalty and with a control scheme diverging significantly that that of most modern FPS (Doom's super-fast controls are pretty unique in the history of FPS), would they release it? Would anyone publish it? Would people buy it? Or would it be panned for "lack of depth" or some other similar bullshit?

Or, worse yet, would the existing Doom community itself pan it because "Source ports can deliver the same level of excitement, and with far better community support" ?

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Maes said:

@printz: sounds too similar to Duke Nukem 3D, only without the aliens and with Fallout elements.

Oh dear, I hope id won't read that line and think they're unoriginal, therefore discarding the Duke Nukem 3d / Fallout similarity and going for something drab (I haven't played any of those two, though).

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printz said:

Oh dear, I hope id won't read that line and think they're unoriginal, therefore discarding the Duke Nukem 3d / Fallout similarity and going for something drab (I haven't played any of those two, though).


Well, throw in Half-life in the mix too, since we're at it.

The thing is, as far as FPS plots go, Doom had a very shallow one. It has a consistent theme and a "between the lines" plot, OK, but not a laid out script or even recognizable characters. Yeah, I know about the Doom Bible but that only left some vestiges here and there in the final product.

Other FPS like Duke Nukem and Half Life are based around a character and a storyline (well..Half Life more) and they generally involve: Aliens, Alien worlds, post-apocalyptics scenarios, etc. Coincidence?

Fallout 3 in particular takes the post-apocalyptic scenario to the extreme (well, it's the basic premise), and since it's primarily a RPG it has a lot of storytelling and plot elements going on.

Trying to bring any of that to Doom would feel like copying.

IMHO, if ID could bring back a genuine, scary hellish element such as that present in Doom 3 but multiply it by a factor of 100 and focus on combat and loosen up the "realism" a bit, in a totally desolate "Hellish Apocalypse" on Earth, where you're totally on your own (or almost), then we're talking. It will have to be strikingly different in the artistic department compared to anything else, to make a difference though.

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I think AgentSpork has made the best point so far. It just can't be done. Modern game developing has grown to be just too overwhelming for the average joe to edit. Doom 4 would need to do a complete overhaul of the common gamer's perspective of what they really want to play in order to be anywhere near as groundbreaking as Doom. With how high the population of stubborn or skeptical gamers there are it's pretty close to impossible.

I can't say I give a shit about how Doom 4 is going to be unless they can really pull something monumental and revolutionize the gaming market. For now it remains pretty stagnant at good graphics and good multiplayer. I can't count on any one game company to best that.

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Nomad said:

I worry it will basically be Painkiller.


I actually wouldn't mind this. Sure, Painkiller had no depth and was just series of fights, but it was a hella fun series of fights with imaginative creatures in tons of different environments. Sure, it's a lot wackier theme-wise than Doom 4 will ever be, but the real point is that, to this Xaser, Painkiller got the gameplay right.

I wouldn't mind having the game not run on rails, though. ;P

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1: it will not have co-op

2: it will have shitty bumpmap/console/plastic wrapped gfx

3: it will suck

4: I dont care

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Today, everything is about 1080p graphics and intense shaders. It's not going to be as fast as the original Doom or more balls to the walls, get the fuck outta my way, type gameplay the original Doom offers. Doom 3 was not even a sequal or beginning for Doom 1 or 2 either to begin with. So if Id Software is going to try and bring back the classic, mindless shooter. Their not gonna create a product that replicates the feeling we all shared back in 1994.

The one thing they lack, is John Romero. Without one of the reason starters of the Doom series, it's not going to be the same.

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I agree with most of the predictions expressed here. The game will still be darker, slower and more convoluted than the pure speed and stylised nature of the first two Dooms. TBH, I fear that Id has missed their chance with the Doom franchise. Quake Live should've been Doom Live - pure, unadultarated (yeah, I know it's a tautology!) run-shoot-kill-repeat gameplay... :)

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darkreaver said:

1: it will not have a cock

2: it will have sexy bumping/cocking/seamen wrapped awsome

3: i will suck (Cock)

4: I dont care if I don't care, This is the most useless post ever


There, fixed it for yah

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Ralphis said:

Looks like everybody has already made up their minds! ID should probably cancel it I guess


Probably not, only that it won't be no Scratchware Manifesto coming true, I'm telling ya. And it risks being unoriginal/too similar to existing titles more than ever before.

Not that any of that would prevent it from being profitable, which in the end matters most for id than what a bunch of bitter old men on some Doom forum think :-p

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I'll still buy DooM 4 in hopes that it is fun to play... I hope the gameplay doesn't blow like DooM 3's did, that 1 on 1 survival horror gameplay crap bores me to death. I'd rather fight mobs of monsters all strategically placed than keep having cheap encounters. DooM 2 proved that you could combine an awesome atmosphere with lots of balls to the walls action. Also, it'd be pretty cool if DooM had level design that revolved around the gameplay and not the other way around.... I wonder how the editing tools will be... but I'm not even going to get my hopes up on that.

Clonehunter said:

I have a dick in my mouth


Cool story bro.

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If it comes out, it comes out. I'm gonna play it one way or another. If it's good, it's good. If it's bad, then DooM had possibly the best run of any video game franchise.

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I remember Classic Doom for Doom 3. That was, and still is, a lot of fun.

Doom 4 will be done with the idTech5 engine (as in RAGE), and therefore will most likely incorporate a lot of cinematics. If they can pull off the game being as atmospheric and entertaining as the original, then I will most certainly play it.

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^
It's things like the potential of cinematics that worries me. A nice intro and ending(s) is fine but Doom shouldn't have cut scenes. It would just change the pace and flow of a game that should be all about the player zipping around as the Doomguy - that's if they are going for classic style gameplay...

A nice fleshed out story-based Doom game wouldn't necessarily be bad but, to my mind, it shouldn't be part of the main game releases, maybe more like Halo ODST or something. :)

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I gave you my money, I gave you my time,
why you want to hurt me girl?
Are you serious? I'm just curious.
Why you want to hurt me girl?

Never, ever had a lover
Who put the peddle to the metal
And burn rubber on me, Doom 3,
Oh no,

You took my money, you took my time
Made me think everything was fine
Then you upped and ran away
And made me just go crazy

I never, ever had a lover
Who put the peddle to the metal
And burn rubber on me, Doom 3,
Oh no, no, no...

-- Another scornful love/hate letter to the modding versatility of Doom 3, and likely its subsequent members of the franchise.

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