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Maes

So... [did OnLive make gaming its bitch, or not?]

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Remember it?

It would seems like not. And once again we have the paradox of an immaterial service that "doesn't have the usual distribution overheads" costing almost the same if not more and performing worse than the tried and true local installation. Compared to that, Steam must feel like heaven.

Atteeeen-shun. Aaaaat-ease. Discuss.

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I would say that all gamers must unite and soundly reject all attempts to seize ownership rights of software away from the end user, such as this, especially when the result is a vastly inferior experience.

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I also noticed most online discussions about it took place in places such as Mac gaming, casual gaming, netbook forums etc. aka the bottom of the barrel, speaking of gaming options and expectations. Perhaps that's exactly where OnLive was aiming at all along.

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Do I need to post a photo of 3 shelves filled with The Sims top to bottom at my local store?

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Technician said:

It distracts you from the loli, right?


That creates existential problems regarding loli-themed games (I'm sure the loli scene is bitterly split on that one).

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Maes said:

And once again we have the paradox of an immaterial service that "doesn't have the usual distribution overheads" costing almost the same if not more and performing worse than the tried and true local installation. Compared to that, Steam must feel like heaven.



Honestly, did anybody really expect something different. This service is made for clueless idiots and they don't deserve better.

The main question is, how much bribes they had to pay to the press in order to get good reviews - or are these journalists really this dumb?

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Graf Zahl said:

or are these journalists really this dumb?

I take it you don't keep up with games journalism? :p

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In terms of scalability, I don't see how they can currently make money on this... yet. Most people don't have connections fast enough for this. The CPU power needed to render the frame, grab the frame, and compress it is pretty high. Nevermind the fact that you now have to send the compressed packets across UDP and hope they don't get dropped destroying the original frames quality.

I would actually be interested to try it for the novelty of it, and I would be quite impressed if a game was playable.

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hobomaster22 said:

In terms of scalability, I don't see how they can currently make money on this... yet.

...


The CPU power needed to render the frame, grab the frame, and compress it is pretty high.


They probably did their maths/have a server farm of sorts for this. The problem doesn't seem to be on their end, regarding the feasibility of the service. Rendering and compression can be done by dedicated hardware, which in practical terms means a $20 device with some of those super-powerful ASICs/DSPs.

hobomaster22 said:

Most people don't have connections fast enough for this. Nevermind the fact that you now have to send the compressed packets across UDP and hope they don't get dropped destroying the original frames quality.


That, and lag. Lag. LAG. Lag when you input something. Lag until you get a response. Lag, Lag and more LAG. As if this wasn't bad enough in normal multiplayer games where there is the network latency affecting player input, now there is also latency until you get actual video/audio queues. Great, where do I sign up?

This pretty much rules out real-time multiplayer games if the participants want to keep at least a facade of fairness and sanity, else it's just like playing basketball with a blocked hoop for some, and a walk in the park for others. With "competitive" gamers being willing to burn $200 on something like this in order to shave a couple of ms off their ethernet latency, claiming to be able to distinguish between 60 and 200 fps on a 60 fps display, OnLive somehow just does away with all this by putting you behind a clusterfuck of delayed data packets. Great.

The only way this could work as intended is over a dedicated data line with NO OTHER TRAFFIC or random interruptions.

hobomaster22 said:

I would actually be interested to try it for the novelty of it, and I would be quite impressed if a game was playable.


You can try playing a game with remote desktop on an internal LAN. And the novelty will soon wear off.

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Maes said:

You can try playing a game with remote desktop on an internal LAN. And the novelty will soon wear off.


I would hope these are nothing alike. Remote desktops are generally quite responsive because they only send the parts of the screen that changed. But in video games the screen is almost always completely different every frame. But I see your point.

Also: NOOOOooo the Killer NIC has been discontinued?? I finally just saved enough money for one. I wanted to make my internets faster with the NETWORK PROCESSING UNIT!

Edit:

Reading the Newegg reviews for the Killer NIC is actually really entertaining.

didnt seem to work didnt change my fram rate or my ping or even any lag after hooking to my computer i ran a speed test on my internet and lost a 1. meg in speed i e-mailed tech suport...

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Belial said:

Do I need to post a photo of 3 shelves filled with The Sims top to bottom at my local store?

Considering that's probably the entire PC section, I don't think that will be necessary.

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Maes, in the article I saw they were getting pings of about 150m/s. That's not bad latency considering just a few years back 200-300 was a common ping in online gaming (and very enjoyable!)

A new generation can experience the joys of 56k!?

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Mr. T said:

Maes, in the article I saw they were getting pings of about 150m/s. That's not bad latency considering just a few years back 200-300 was a common ping in online gaming (and very enjoyable!)


Common? Yes, if you were using dial-up and not living in the USA. Enjoyable? Nope.
Tolerable? Neither: a lot of servers kicked you for having lag over 150 ms already in 2005-1006.

Mr. T said:

A new generation can experience the joys of 56k!?


Worse. With 56K, the "lag" was only between input and server response, and only a tiny amount of data needed to be transferred. With OnLive, there's a constant download stream which makes sending data performance degrade (every DSL user knows that too high upload rates do degrade download, and viceversa).

Lag in this case is also exacerbated by compression delay and artifacts (in order to implement an efficient video codec, they will need to process several frames ahead before sending the compressed bitstream down the pipes). A very similar phenomenon occurs with a lot of LCD displays: input lag.

This is enough to disrupt the creeds of the "1337 pr0 gam3rz" who will shriek in horror before the prospect of being denied of several frames which can make the difference between "pwner" and "pwned", or losing a hair of motion detail here and there that would make their ultr4 1337 AWT sniping a minute of an angle less precise.

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I doubt that this is aimed at pro gamers. I had a lot of fun playing CS on my crappy connection lol

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Mr. T said:

I doubt that this is aimed at pro gamers. I had a lot of fun playing CS on my crappy connection lol


I had a lot of "fun" leading my aim with the SSG in ZDaemon in order to hit somebody at point blank, too ;-)

I still remember it:

*I see an enemy doing a very close strafing/chaingunning "drive-by"*

*I aim at FUTURE position with a HITSCAN weapon*

*Bang*

*I almost die from the "strafe by"*

*But a second later 20 pellet wounds materialize on enemy as well and he dies entirely ;-) *

...and that was on DSL.

Similarly, whenever I hosted games of BF1942, I was nearly unbeatable or at least my apparent ability in CQC improved tenfold. That's one of the reasons I can't take any real-time online game too seriously...maybe chess or TBS.

And OnLive surely won't help in that respect, only that this time you get the same lag effects for SINGLE player games too. Wow! Welcome to the future...it will be like playing this:

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I would have liked to see a system like OnLive succeed, since it's pretty much the only way to deal with online cheaters reliably. An aimbot or sound-based wallhack for OnLive would require a complex AI, and at that point you might as well build a robot that plays games for you.

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Spleen said:

I would have liked to see a system like OnLive succeed, since it's pretty much the only way to deal with online cheaters reliably.


I'd take cheaters over cloud computing any day.

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Danarchy said:

Considering that's probably the entire PC section, I don't think that will be necessary.

Half of it.

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