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bgraybr

Whacked3 in Windows 7 64 bit?

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I've tried running it and I get the error "some dll file is missing from your system". I downloaded the dll, but it won't register. I googled around, and according to some sources its not possible to add this dll in 64 bit Windows, without installing a lot of 32 bit compatibility files that I don't really want to mess around with.

So, has anyone had any luck getting this to run in Windows 7 64 bit? If not, are there any alternatives? Whacked3 was the only DeHacked editor that I could find that would run on a modern computer.

Are DeHacked patches that hard to write by hand? I know that its in a human readable format, so I guess I can do that if I can't find a decent editor...

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They're hard to write by hand because you have to know what everything defaults to. It might be doable if you had a reference listing of all frames and things, but I've never seen a complete one.

What is it you are looking to do? Perhaps someone could just write up a patch for you. (I might, assuming it doesn't take much time.)

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I'm trying to add the Revenant as an enemy in Doom 1/The Ultimate Doom, I don't understand DeHacked very well but I think its possible if you sacrifice the Specter (which to me is a useless enemy), and some of the decorative objects that I never use (all of the techbase lamps and pillars, the ugly twitching marine on a pole, the trees). Do you think that its doable?

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You won't have the codepointer for a tracer rocket or revenant punch so you won't be able to add the revenant perfectly to Doom 1. At best you could sacrifice another thing for the projectile, but it will never home.

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Mista_T said:

You won't have the codepointer for a tracer rocket or revenant punch so you won't be able to add the revenant perfectly to Doom 1. At best you could sacrifice another thing for the projectile, but it will never home.


Hmm, I guess it would be okay, without the homing rocket, as long as it still punched (Maybe you could use the Demon's bite)? Or it could shoot ordinary rockets instead, but it might just kill itself with splash damage unless I'm careful placing it, or sacrifice one of the boss monsters (which I don't want to do).

I'm just trying to add an enemy to Doom 1 that presents more of a challenge, I've started making maps for it more and making interesting fights is a lot harder than it is is Doom 2. The Revenant is a good all around enemy that I like using.

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AFAIK, it should be possible with vanilla (assuming v1.9) because the exes are the same for Doom and Doom2.

As a last resort, another thing you could try is using the original version of Dehacked with Dosbox.

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4mer said:

AFAIK, it should be possible with vanilla (assuming v1.9) because the exes are the same for Doom and Doom2.

As a last resort, another thing you could try is using the original version of Dehacked with Dosbox.


That's good news- I'm assuming that most people will just play my wad in Choco Doom or something, so I'm not concerned if its broken in versions before 1.9

I've tried using the original version or DeHacked, but it won't let me continue on startup if I don't select an exe to patch, and it will be annoying having to mess around in DOS that much. But if that's my only option I guess I can't complain to much.

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Mista_T said:

You won't have the codepointer for a tracer rocket or revenant punch so you won't be able to add the revenant perfectly to Doom 1. At best you could sacrifice another thing for the projectile, but it will never home.

All you need to do is add the sprites and sounds of the revenant and put it in the map.

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Sorry about bumping this thread again, but I tried to add the graphics and its not working. Can someone link me to a list of all of the graphics/sounds associated with the Revenant? I'm also going to try upgrading my iwad to 1.9, I think.

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Sigvatr said:

Check yourself.


Believe it or not, that's what I'm doing right now. They're not appearing in the map, so I'm going to mess around with it some more. I just wanted to check to see if I was missing something, or something.

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bgraybr said:

Believe it or not, that's what I'm doing right now. They're not appearing in the map, so I'm going to mess around with it some more. I just wanted to check to see if I was missing something, or something.

In ports such as Chocolate Doom it will be necessary to change the Revenant's DoomEd number to something unused, such as 666, because there is a devilish little check in P_SetupThings which will not spawn certain DOOM II monsters in DOOM 1. However it checks by DoomEd number and not by the internal ordinal (aka DeHackEd number).

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Note that trick does not work in jDoom as we always use the internal ordinals precisely because it prevents such shenanigans.

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DaniJ said:

Note that trick does not work in jDoom as we always use the internal ordinals precisely because it prevents such shenanigans.



So you block spawning them by their internal number?

That sounds very much like the problem with voodoo dolls in Legacy (i.e. a stupid compatibility issue for no good reason.)

ZDoom simply checks for the presence of the sprites and only blocks the spawn if those are not present.

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Yes. I don't think we need to get into this debate again as I'm quite sure our opinions haven't changed. Mine is that multiple games should not be mashable quite so trivially by users.

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DaniJ said:

Yes. I don't think we need to get into this debate again as I'm quite sure our opinions haven't changed. Mine is that multiple games should not be mashable quite so trivially by users.

I'd think it's worthwhile to support for Dehacked purposes; one could pretty easily make a vanilla-compatible Ultimate Doom mod that inserts completely custom monsters in the place of some of the Doom2 frames and thing slots that Ultimate Doom doesn't use by default. There's no stolen resource use or iwad mixing involved, just taking advantage of slots that are, in effect, empty. And it'd be playable in every sourceport that retains the original behavior.

It seems pointless to restrict this hypothetical Ultimate Doom mod to only being able to be made using sourceport-specific features that would create the exact same end result in a less compatible form.

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Thats an interesting and somewhat compelling argument essel. However once you allow users to "rip" from DOOM2 to DOOM so easily how can you then argue against allowing the direct spawning of Hexen creatures in DOOM (for example).

This isn't about wanting to restrict users to a port-specific featureset for their mods.

Edit: However such a hypothetical mod could still work with the anti-mashup measure in place if we handle it a little differently.

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DaniJ said:

Mine is that multiple games should not be mashable quite so trivially by users.


As essel said, it can even be done with the vanilla EXEs. Doom1 and Doom 2 cannot really be considered separate games because internally Doom 1 had the Doom 2 code at its disposal since v1.666.

I don't know what your 'mashup' feature does precisely but since the entire thing definition table is present in Doom 1 and all Doom 2 code pointers are also readily accessible you should be prepared that any Doom 2 feature can be used by Dehacked mods, except the super shotgun and the Megasphere which are rendered inoperable elsewhere in the code.

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Maybe so but it was only accessible by hacking the executable. It isn't at it's disposal as you say because it is explicitly coded against. Remember, Dehacked is not a modding feature. Support for a degree of Dehacked functionality is a concession made by port authors.

Although I do accept the argument. Given that we are already committed to Dehacked then I guess we just have to accept the potential for DOOM+DOOM2 mashups.

I will remove this measure for the next release.

Although I'm still completely opposed to the idea of spawning Hexen monsters in DOOM (for example) and do not think we should be making it any easier to do so.

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DaniJ said:

Although I'm still completely opposed to the idea of spawning Hexen monsters in DOOM (for example) and do not think we should be making it any easier to do so.

To the contrary, Hexen monsters in DOOM may be silly, but I think spawning Heretic monsters in Hexen or vice versa can be quite useful. And I even think it's legal, as long as you have a method of checking for the presence of both IWADs simultaneously.

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It's not so much about spawning the original monsters but having their special behavior at your disposal. There have been several ZDoom mods which had custom monsters that were based on Hertic's or Hexen's (or even some that had Doom monsters in Hexen or Heretic.)

And there has been Hordes of Chaos which freely mixed monsters of all 3 games in Heretic - and it's still a great mod.

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Obviously I realize that if we follow our own roadmap for the Doomsday Engine then stuff like will ultimately be possible there too - its unavoidable being as it is the logical conclusion architecturally speaking.

I just hate what tends to happen to engines when they get to that point; a tidal wave of poorly conceived crap mods.

If a user wishes to blend x number of games for their own amusement thats one thing. However an engine which supports mashing them together natively with little effort on the modder's part is not something I like the idea of.

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DaniJ said:

I just hate what tends to happen to engines when they get to that point; a tidal wave of poorly conceived crap mods.



I guess that's an unavoidable side effect of an engine becoming popular to beginner modders. If you don't want that the only real option is not to add any easy to use modding features but that'd of course be utterly counterproductive.

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EDIT: What Graf_Zahl says.

Graf Zahl said:

If you don't want that the only real option is not to add any easy to use modding features but that'd of course be utterly counterproductive.

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