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NaturalTvventy

Max # of linedefs in DB2

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yea that's what I fig'd. gonna be spending a heck of a lot of time deleting lots of nonessential vertices. or perhaps I shall shelve this work until yet another version of DB2 comes out with a greater # of linedefs allowed.

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Would you...um, mind posting a screenshot of your map? I'm really just curious what you've set up so you even have that many linedefs...

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there's still a lot of empty spaces there :') Since i've blabbered and hyped the level a bit I think I'll make it at somewhat playable and make an unofficial release. Who knows when a new version of DB will be out to allow me to continue with it.

NT

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If you're using UDMF as your map format, you can use as many sidedefs as you need (well, as many as the engine can possibly internally handle, which I think is several billion).

If you're using Doom or Hexen format, though, you can use ZDBSP as your nodebuilder and use extended segs (it should do this automatically if your map exceeds the maximum seg count), as well as DB2's automatic sidedefs compression which should allow you to go well over 65535 sidedefs before bumping into the limit.

If you actually mean 65535 linedefs, though, then I don't think there's much helping you, other than a conversion to UDMF.

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I'm pretty sure it was linedefs... now I've deleted a bunch of crap I wasn't going to use anyways, so I can't tell for sure any more. but it wasn't a matter of building the nodes. DB2 wouldn't even let me draw anything else.

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Is this that awesome industrial map with all those cool screenies in that other thread? Coz if it is...



LINEDEFS SCHMINEDEFS.


NO EXCUSES WILL BE TOLERATED.


YOU MUST FINISH THIS MAP.


RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.


GIMME GIMME GIMME.

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Kyka said:

Is this that awesome industrial map with all those cool screenies in that other thread?


Oh wait...that's right, you're the guy making that map! :O Make it work somehow!!

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The 65535 linedefs limit is hardcoded for the free version. If you pay me well, I can raise the limit.

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CodeImp said:

The 65535 linedefs limit is hardcoded for the free version. If you pay me well, I can raise the limit.



Why is this limit there in the first place?

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Haha, sorry guys I couldn't resist. It was a bad joke.

As esselfortium correctly mentioned, the 65535 linedefs is the hard limit in the map format. There is nothing you can do about it except switching to UDMF and pray that the sourceport you're using doesn't impose the same limit on the number of linedefs.

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So, to be clear, does the Doom Builder 2 software allow you to go beyond the 2^16 linedef limit if the map is set as UDMF mode?

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Graf Zahl said:

ZDoom doesn't. I made sure of that some time ago.


Well this is most certainly Zdoom I'm using, in hexen format, so shouldn't this not be an issue?

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Both Doom format and Hexen format are binary, and that means the size used to write numbers is limited. Just like if you have only four decimal digits to write a number, you can't write a value higher than 9999.

The textmap format has no inherent limitations. In fact, it can technically outgrow the limitations of the engine themselves, even if they're in the millions or billions.

The drawback is that it takes up more space, but for the moment the only source ports that have implemented UDMF (ZDoom, GZDoom, Skulltag, Vavoom) allow you to load compressed files, so this offsets that.

I'd suggest taking a look at the map formats article from the ZDoom wiki.

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It is not strange at all. Computers are built around 8-bit bytes, and so the size of a computer "word" will be one byte (8-bit architecture), two bytes (16-bit), four bytes (32-bit), eight bytes (64-bit) and so on.

The maximum value with eight bits is 255. With sixteen bits, 65535. With thirty-two bits, 4294967295. With signed numbers, the limits are halved: 127 and -128, 32767 and -32768, 2147483647 and -2147483648.

You should expect these numbers to come back often, because of the very way computers work.

(Technically, you can make computers based on different architectures. Some early computers used bytes of only six or seven bits. The octet byte is a standard though, because it can be represented quite handily with a two-digit hexadecimal value, from 00 to FF.)

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printz said:

So, to be clear, does the Doom Builder 2 software allow you to go beyond the 2^16 linedef limit if the map is set as UDMF mode?

Yes, Doom Builder supports up to 2^31 linedefs. (That is 2.147.483.648 linedefs for those not accustomed to powers of 2.)

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CodeImp said:

The 65535 linedefs limit is hardcoded for the free version. If you pay me well, I can raise the limit.


Heh, Deepsea joke.

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CodeImp said:

Yes, Doom Builder supports up to 2^31 linedefs. (That is 2.147.483.648 linedefs for those not accustomed to powers of 2.)

Well, considering that you almost certainly can't represent linedefs in memory using less than 10 bytes, that would imply Doom Builder 2 having at least 20 GB of RAM allocated to it, just for linedefs. I'm not saying that's impossible *snicker* but it would be scary ;) ;) ;)

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Quasar said:

that would imply Doom Builder 2 having at least 20 GB of RAM allocated to it, just for linedefs.

Hard drive aplenty.

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Oh, so there's a linedef limit too. Well of course there's a linedef limit. You think I would have guessed this by now. I think the map I'm working on it around 55K linedefs...hopefully I don't hit that limit too :P

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Quasar said:

Well, considering that you almost certainly can't represent linedefs in memory using less than 10 bytes, that would imply Doom Builder 2 having at least 20 GB of RAM allocated to it, just for linedefs. I'm not saying that's impossible *snicker* but it would be scary ;) ;) ;)

Well it is dynamically allocated, so yea, if you have 20 GB memory you can reach the maximum number of linedefs in UDMF format :) But you probably need much more than 20 GB, because you need memory for the vertices, sidedefs and possible some sectors as well.

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