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Progressive Fiction (Hadephobia now on /idgames)

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Okay, now it' time for me to ask MAP21 slot. Originally, I wanted MAP18, but now I think, MAP21 slot give me more facilities :)

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18:43 *Placing last items*
18:48 *Adding some ammo to make it more affordable*
18:52-18:57 *Playtesting on all difficulties*
18:59 *Adding the requested Co-op starts*
19:03 *Finished!*
I don't see any sense of uploading because Vap is still working on the sixth map I suppose. If purist wants to see and at least bugfix it, I'll upload then just for him.


Here are the details:
Title: Deadly Exploitation
Author: Cell
Music: Evilution MAP20
Story: "Getting through that short mountain cave, you ecounter some black mountains in not-that-vast distances. Your curiosity increases as it appears to be bordered by some metal fences. Following a rocky path, you shortly stand in a yard with two huge greyish-black mountains and a blood fountain. The metal gate closes behind you.

As you're getting closer, the first thing you notice that the bigger mountain is actually a built-in base. Once before, humankid tracked this landscape down and it turned to be a huge locality of precious metal. Time had passed, soon they ran out of gold and platinum, but they still had loads of silver to mine out... then it happened. The invasion reached the base and all of the miners were either killed by devilous hellspawn or buried by collapsing stuff.

You want to show the entire world you're the quality marine. You decide to leave the green, grassy fields of peace and quiet and descend into the mines of despair, pain and suffer to get these suckers eat their own shit because of killing loads of people - again.

But to acces the way down, you must collect all three skulls in the area - the Golden Skull in the middle of a demotic mudpit, the Blood Skull on the top of the gargoyle fountain, and the Skull of the Wisdom, hardly guarded by the hellspawn and placed into the smaller mountain. Aren't you able to do this? Why are you still hesitating and waiting for Deus Ex Machina?"

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I've added you on Katamori. How apt that you did the first map of the Megawad and now you are doing the first map of the last episode.

Latest slots now look like this. Full list and download is on first page as usual.

MAP21 (04 APR 11 - 10 APR 11): Katamori. Map Name TBC.
MAP22 (11 APR 11 - 17 APR 11): YOU?!? Next available slot...

Even more good news to hear Cell has finished. I've been looking forward to playing your map as I liked MAP02. Please upload as although it's true Vaporizer is still working on MAP06 he still needs your map so he can make his ending fit your start. He said it will be finished this week too so he might get an early start on MAP08. Plus it's never too soon to start playtesting :-)

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Download link:
Just a comment... it has to be worse than MAP02 cuz it's bigger and has a larger chance to have mistakes :D

purist said:

How apt that you did the first map of the Megawad and now you are doing the first map of the last episode.

Actually, he HAD to be the first of the mappers, 'cause he was the upbringer of the idea itself.

[EDIT] Just a little request... I've just made a big shit circular room and filled it with monsters and I beg you making it more playable and affordable :D
Now, seriously: if you start bugfixing, please, fix that friggin' vertex mistake at the brown door's border right facing the fountain - I wanted to make an Essel-compatible solution for making BRONZE1 and BRONZE2 a 72-units wide texture, but changed my mind when found that SUPPORT3 can easily cut it and it doesn't even look that awful. I've already deleted the map from my disk, sorry.

And don't forget to write MAP07's name (Deadly Exploitation) on the 1st-page list.[/EDIT]

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Good points:

*Nice design.
*Texturing give classic feeling (outdoor: Doom 2, indoor: Doom 1)
*Good using of classic elements (e.g. teleport for the red key - I've never seen any similar since 90's WADs)
*Creative elements (corpses in the base, flames in the peaks, etc.)

Bad points:

*You can see the scenery edge on thetop of the little mountain. Resize them.
*Realistic is weird... you don't have to modify them, just said:
- every peaks, mountains and buildings are in the middle of the nowhere... weird...
- the wood building in the mountain is nice, but... a bookshelf next to the door? on the edge of the mountain? who reads here any books? :D

Finally, it is a good level, but in my view MAP02 was a bit better :) not as good and detailed as MAP07, but... you know

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Yes TrueDude, that's OK. Here's the latest slot list. You know by now where to find the full list. Oh Ok, it's on the first page :-)

MAP21 (04 APR 11 - 10 APR 11): Katamori. Map Name TBC.
MAP22 (11 APR 11 - 17 APR 11): TrueDude. Map Name TBC.
MAP23 (18 APR 11 - 24 APR 11): YOU?!? Next available slot...

Any mappers still deciding whether to join this project should act fast. There's only 8 map slots left to claim. I'll definitely be taking one of the last couple of maps to help close out the story.

More immediate concerns then... I've played Cell's map.

I'm staggered at how fast you work! Katamori's comments about unrealistic elements don't really concern me and I love the theme and sense of place you portray. The only thing I would gently urge you to consider changing aesthetically is the lighting as there's not a lot of contrast. The main offending area for me is the main tech area after the barred door.

Something I was suprised Katamori never mentioned was that your map is incredibly difficult. I would love you to post a max UV demo run as it must be near impossible! I was determined to complete it without cheating so lowered the difficulty down until I finally completed it on HNTR. This difficulty level was still a challenge and about right for MAP07. I'm sure I'm not the best player here but I'd be suprised if anyone found UV appropriate for MAP07 - even allowing for ammo & weapons carried over from MAP06. Seriously, I think difficulty needs to be considerably toned down.

Other nitpicks:

It feels as though the map depends too much on it's secrets. I missed the plasma rifle & the soulsphere, while the BFG, rocket launcher and MegaSphere come too late.

Pistol start would be helped a bit if the shotgun next to the dead seargent was replaced by a chaingun.

Can you only open the teleporter to the red key once? This may cause problems in co-op.

I like the music but it doesn't loop! Each time it stopped abrubtly it killed the atmosphere a bit and I ended up playing without it.

Regardless of the difficulty those Revenants at the bottom of the stone staircase need to go. That fight is absolutely no fun without mouselook. I'd put a Caco down there or if you must be evil a Pain Elemental as they will float up when awoken.

Other than the Revenants above I won't go into monster placement. I basically think your HNTR difficulty level should be UV and it should be toned down further for the other difficulties.

Let me know your thoughts on my comments about difficulty.

On your story: Did you concieve why there's a mine here? The purposes etc, or is that for another mapper to decide. Like MAP07 I will give it a bit of an edit and PM you my version to approve or disprove...

Vaporizer: hope you're nearly done with MAP06. Please play Cell's map as soon as you get chance and tie the end of MAP06 into the start of MAP07. Copy and paste sectors from Cell's map to make your exit view look like this (minus the imp fireballs of course):

As for your MAP08. Well that's easy. You're mapping a mine! Please no detours this time :-)

I've written this just before bed so I'm sure I'm forgetting something I want to say so I'll add posts if I remember.

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You're in Olympus. Latest slots:

MAP22 (11 APR 11 - 17 APR 11): TrueDude. Map Name TBC.
MAP23 (18 APR 11 - 24 APR 11): Olympus. Map Name TBC.
MAP24 (25 APR 11 - 01 MAY 11): YOU?!? Next available slot...

Your map is not due to be started until 18 APR 11 but don't let that stop you coming by here for playtesting etc if you want to.

EDIT: I've been racking my brain thinking of a way to combine all our levels into a believable story... and I've come up with a rough idea I'd like you all to comment on:

Think of the Megawad being set on a post-apocalyptic Earth. War torn after Hell's invasion in Doom II. Doomguy quelled the invasion but pockets of demonic resistance remained and the UAC were contracted to clean up these last sporadic few hordes. After a decade it is thought that the last of Hell's presence on Earth is extinquished.

But Doomguy is suffering these Hellish nightmares and hallucinations. Others too. They can't accept the last Demon on Earth is dead and have a real sense that a new invasion is imminent.

The UAC has severely embarrased the Government and after the clean up contract has had it's funds cut to minimal research only. It's contracted to conduct experiments on those such as Doomguy who are suffering this post-Hell shock. They discover that these sufferers have more than just hallucinations - they have been given a psychic link with the Spidermasterminds, giving the a two-way stream of each other's thoughts. Those with weak will and morals can even be influenced by the Mastermind's psychic manipulation.

The UAC used the psychic streams to their advantage. Finding profitable ventures (such as oil wells) through the Masterminds all emcompassing knowledge and becoming more prosperous and powerfull as a result. One venture discovered was the mine loaded with precious stones, however this proved to be a trap. A faction of Hell had been buried here and left undiscovered by the clean up operation and after digging further deeper for precious stones the UAC had inadvertedly broken Hell loose and overwhelmed the UAC's diminished army.

Doomguy has escaped his assylum and stumbled accross the mine that had opened the portal to Hell. He must again quell the demonic force before it spreads from the island to the main land.

So what do you all think? It's quite compelling I think and at the very least it ties up all the maps we've made so far.

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TNT's MAP20 music doesn't loop? WTF. How the hell I could do it. What sourceport you were playtesting?

Anyway, I know I've done something like HR or Plutonia due to f*cking Revenants. Sorry, I'm not used to design hard-themed maps so much, and this can be more affordable as a MAP19 I suppose. Anything else. The teleporter... well, it IS a cliche, so maybe you should remove all the actions from the fountain's inside sidedefs (the ones with MARBLOD lower texture) and change the teleport action from 39 to 97. I accept the cacodemons in the gothic area, too - and I allow you put multiple ASHWALL2/ROCK5 mountains into the outside as well, because I take Katamori's advices as well, he's keen on aesthetics. But for that Large Brown Tree half-floating in the air... pull that rock wider, because I don't want it to be deleted.

[EDIT] Vaporizer, it goes for you. Whether you didn't notice it before, I've made the cave entrace tighter and smaller than it was, because of the distance effect purist used before. So, you should put these mountains and the deadly yard further than it looks from this distance. And you don't have to change ASHWALL2 to either ROCK5 or ZIMMER2, as I've just done it for aesthetical issues - if your style goes better with these eye-rape solutions, I don't mind it...[/EDIT]

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Sorry, I might have mis-spoke regards the music. It does loop but not seamlessly like other music does. Instead it seems to stop abruptly then start again a second later. I testeed in PRBoom+ - did no-one else find this in that port? If not maybe it is my settings to blame, but I don't have that fault in other music.

It's not just the Revs. I will play again tonight and make a list of difficulty related issues and you can let me know what changes you want to make. I agree that this difficulty would lend itself more to MAP19 but I'd be keen to hear other people's thoughts on difficulty (pistol start, UV, no secrets, PRBoom+) in case it's just me!

The teleporter is fine. I just thought swapping the switch that opens the door to the teleporter to repeatable might fix. I've not looked into it in Doombuilder yet though so I don't know for sure.

I'll add the mountains and widen the rock you mention. I agree the extra mountains will improve the horizon - didn't notice the floating tree myself though.

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Vaporizer said:

This may sound like the dumbest question ever, but how those teleport ambushes are made? I tried to learn it from other peoples maps, but I can't understand it.

It's because of joining sectors. The reason is probably that you've not heard about the hotkey "J" before. Click on one of the sectors and then on another. Then press J, and voilá: the two sectors will have the same floor, ceiling, brightness and height. Note that the later highlighted sector will "change", adjusting to the firstly chosen one.

@purist: I'm glad you're willing to do the mountains, but, despite Essel's anger, please, use that autoalign, because if not, the difference may be up and multiple players will see this quite strangely.
And you don't have to do only ASHWALL2-FLAT5_8 mountains, but ROCK5-RROCK16 mountains as well.

Katamori said:

The Evilution MAP20 were my dumb idea... sorry :Đ

Well, I've overestimated this... IMO, TNT MAP18's music must have fit better. If purist can also do this, it'll be fine. A suggestion: maybe it (TNT 20's music) would fit better into MAP08, because of the underground and/or claustrophobic feeling the music gives.

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A conveyor belt is guided by a simple linedef, tagged with the same tag as the conveyor belt sector, using linedef special 253 and goes in from-left-to-right direction of the linedef's front side (e.g. if the linedef is facing south, then the sector scrolls from east to west). The longer the linedef, the faster the conveyor belt is.

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For the best efficiency, it's good to put a linedef that teleports the monsters BACK to the beginning of the conveyor belt. Otherwise, there's potential for monsters to just sit at the end of the conveyor belt and never teleport.

Just a general tip for anyone who isn't familiar with the concept. Also, I agree with TNT MAP18 being better than MAP20 for Cell's map. MAP20 music always kind of reminded me of a more epic, quiet journey.

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EDIT: Cell, I've done all the fixes you requested but progress stalled a bit cos I hit a snag with the joined sectors that monsters teleport from.

Tomorrow I will do a second file with some changes to monster placement to reduce difficulty and I'll upload them both zipped with an amended story.txt (mainly grammar fixes etc) and you can tell me what you think.

Nobody has commented on my post with my story idea in it yet - nobody have any comments on this?

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The story itself? Best ever! The part about the Masterminds' abilities is quite believeable and makes sense of the story flowing.
About my story twist... hell yes, I was planning to go underground in the second group of maps (7-11), so maybe the if first part is both the hospital and setting free from it and wandering somewhere under the open sky, its sequel can be in the mine. Actually, I wouldn't say that then nobody will be able to get out of the mine (or at least the underground places whatsoever), but if the second little mapset was about "A chance to mine in HELL!", it would just improve the variety of everyone's mappings' various styles, etcetra. Just to set an example... you've definitely seen the FIREBLU satanic cross in the gothic cave, haven't you? It was scratched from that both MAP05 and MAP06 had (at least) one, so why not?

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Well, the final level is quite nice overall, but here are some bad points:
- As you've mentioned, your map beats even mine in difficulty and quite depends on whether you go back at the beginning or not. It's quite horrid that either you're dead or you beat all the badasses giving no opportunity even for a simple resistance...
- I still can't get out of that friggin pit where I find the yellow skull key. I suppose the teleporter in the wooden room full of corpses meant to take me out, but the destination area still can't access the way out. Also, I know what you expect of an Archvile with a room full of dead monsters, but the "decorations" can't be resurrected! :D
- Two aesthetical bugs: once you've made through the blue skull elevator and turn back, the wood texture WOODMET "forms into a paper tower" between the two WOOD12's. It wouldn't even be a mistake unless the sky above yellow key door's border "erases" this ugliness. The other: after the red door, a linedef turns to HOM at the right. And if we're here, it looks rather weirdo to get stopped by the single edge of wood gate overlooking the grassy, tight abyss - how about using some grates to make some sense of it?

Anything else are only my problems about the "texture harmony" (I still can't stand if a flat texture doesn't go well with the lower texture edging it), anyway, why didn't you change the music so far?

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That's because no new maps have been finished since then. Cell's MAP07 will be included soon I expect. I've not had chance to playtest Vaporizer's MAP06 but from Cell's comments there's more work to do on it and I don't know where magicsofa is with MAP05 progress-wise.

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Now that is the problem Magicsofa couldn't see. If his map is not compiled into the WAD, it won't be able to work in this way. However, I hope he'll be ready at least for next week... BTW, where's that alpha version you promised?

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Check the link, it's there now. You'll find 3 versions of your map zipped with an altered story.txt (I changed this more than planned to wedge in a bit more of the story). The 3 versions are as follows:

Progcell: Your original version
Progcell2: New version with just the changes agreed on the forum
Progcell3: What I consider the final version. With several THING placement changes I took the liberty of making.

I've also updated progfic.wad to include MAP07 (progcell3).

Cell, please give me your comments in particular on progcell3 and the story as they are the files I'm planning on using in the megawad.

Vaporizer, I'm going to playtest your MAP06 next.

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Well, I had tried both of the newer versions.
Original: horrid difficulty and gets tightened in ammo quite early.
First update: looks well with the mountain borders, but still not enough ammo thanks to my not-so strong skills in thing placement...
Second update: that rules. It's at least playable; BUT, I've found a small mistake on Hard difficulty, as both Chaingunners are overlapped by Sergeants - I'm not certain what does this mean... Which of them will be used on Hard?

Don't get me wrong, I didn't mean to abuse you of being more practical in thing placement - I've learnt my lesson for now. I'm gonna make #13 and #19 (and I wanna pick #26 as my final level in the WAD, after #24 and #25 are already taken) with more regard to thing placement AND not messing it all up because of that "finishing-late-phobia" I suffer from.

BTW, I hope poor Magicsofa had already written the last paper before winter holiday - it would be great if the WAD is continued by Christmas at l(e)ast...

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