Progressive Fiction (Hadephobia now on /idgames)

[magicsofa]

I would think the kind of players who care about UV-max are good enough to do this trick...I'd like to wait for purist's take on this. Maybe I'll post a video of me completing the secret...2-3 seconds late is extremely late, you must be taking a longer route, or hitting stuff, or something. 128 units would probably give you one second.

[The_MártonJános]

Actually it was only 0.7-0.8 seconds. I could only take a peek at the RL before that damn column raised back. Argh.

[EDIT] Succeeded for the 184th attempt. Huh! Even the E1M3 rocket launcher wasn't this cheesy to achieve.[/EDIT]

[EDIT II] Oh crap. Why do I always suck due to the fact neither of you are "night members?" [/EDIT II]

[purist]

Since there's a debate about MAP05 I'll add my own two cents:

Re: the secret. I would never find it or even try more than once or twice. I knew it was going to be activated by the eye switch but looking around I couldn't even see what was being activated. I found the sector in Doombuilder and was astonished at not only the distance I was required to cover but the awkward route I would need to get there by. For a giggle I had a go and was absolutely nowhere near. So I guess I agree with Cell that it's incredibly hard. For reference the RL secret in MAP07 requires jumping off a ledge onto a mountain (not hard), the one in MAP09 requires opening an unmarked wall though the clue is that the RL is visible from another area so it should be easy to work out. I can't remember where the RL secret in MAP10 is but I did find it so it can't be too hard.

That said, you and Cell have proved it's possible. It might annoy non-serious demo runners but it's not like the RL is vital to complete the map. More of a concern for me is that the switch may disorientate players who think it is activating something vital in the map. So I say, it's up to you. My only real stipulation for secrets is that they should be reachable and not compulsary to complete the map. The RL secret ticks both boxes so it's up to you.

The red key

I agree with Cell on this and a lighting clue is not enough. I found it only because I knew from the switch you previously had there how you intended the area to work. And even then I backtracked a bit first looking for an obvious switch I might have missed. for the first block at least a switch texture should be used - it's not a secret area there's no shame in being blunt.

I've had a little play through and there a few points I want to bring up but I feel I should play a bit more first to be sure. I won't have time to do this until after I've finished my map so I will give more in-depth notes next week. Same goes for the new version of MAP13.

On my map. I've got started but I'm struggling a bit with the theme. I'm sure it will pull together and I have a few ideas but it's a bit frustrating since I had relatively clear visions for MAP04 and MAP09.

[magicsofa]

As far as finding it, you could look at the map to see the sector changing color.

I will add a little bit of time but otherwise I'm gonna leave it as-is. It is actually directly visible from the switch. I'm not worried about disorientation - I don't see why a player would think "gosh I can't figure out what this switch does, I'm not going to progress at all until I find out"

As for the red key part: What about an arrow in the floor? That's always fun :D

[Vaporizer]

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[The_MártonJános]

@Vaporizer: Now why? At least I can say about that it's boiling blood!! :D

@magicsofa: The secret RL purist is talking about follows the same "Russian Roulette" as the switch that opens the secret exit area in D2 MAP15. At least you could give a hint to players what the hell they're supposed to do, because the route to that friggin' one-summer secret is a passion on it's own as well.

@purist: Now I understood. Man, it can be a terribly tight schedule!

[Vaporizer]

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[The_MártonJános]

"Newbie", eh? Look at e.g. 1Monster MAP12, 2002ADO E2M2, etc...
Do you think those maps were made by "newbie"-s?

[Grain of Salt]

[magicsofa]

Grain of Salt said:

the way DOOM handles liquids

or rather, doesn't handle liquids!

I agree...don't mix flats that way

[purist]

@magicsofa: An arrow would be better but I still fail to see the argument against a compspan switch. Why risk the player getting lost?

@Vaporizer: So are you taking MAP25 instead of MAP27? I'll update the thread title/map slots later.

@Cell: Not to gang up but I agree with the others about not mixing liquid flats. I've not seen your new area but I've never seen this done well before.

[The_MártonJános]

-.-'

Couldn't even imagine this as such a tremendous visual cliche.

Anyway, I'm in that the area with those mixed liquids' method has to go, but only for pressure. The choice is now exactly the lava and nothing else.

[EDIT]At least it's a bit less in megabytes now.[/EDIT]

[Grain of Salt]

[purist]

Thought I'd post an update since I've made it a bit of a Thursday night tradition:

MAP15 is proving to be the most difficult to nail of the three maps I've worked on. I have mapped out about 50%-60% of the area but its all bare bones. I have an idea for much of the remaining 40%-50% and I will hopefully find a lot of time to work on the map over the weekend so I am optimistic I will have a decent first draft. If not I am sure I'll at least have enough for MAP16 and MAP31 to be started. Despite the slots both these maps can be started next week as I will obviously make both exits to these maps in MAP15.

Both MAP15 and MAP31 will be tech bases overrun by Hell. MAP15 will be the Communication Tower where Doomguy will hope to get out a mayday/SOS message. However, he will first receive a distress message of his own from the UAC Armoury (MAP31). He must decide whether to rush to the Communication Tower while the power lines are intact or attend to the distress signal, though he knows it is 99% likely those who recorded it are already dead. As well as this, our hero will learn how Hell warps man-made structures into their own diabolical creations and that Hell has built a spawn zone where endless waves of demons are summoned (I would really like to save this place for MAP20 as I have a good boss idea).

As well as my map I still have to playtest the latest versions of MAP05 and MAP13. Add a new sky2 and update/upload the .wad. This will all happen next week.

Well, that's my wall of text update. Vaporizer, I think you're the only other person still working on maps (MAP06/MAP14). Can you update us?

[Walter confetti]

i like to see how coming out for that map, purist... also i like to see vaporizer's maps!

[purist]

It's nothing special yet. I will do my upmost to have a decent effort uploaded on Sunday night. I'm hoping it will all come together as I'm not building areas in a linear way where or putting monters in yet.

You're MAP16, which I think will be the Communication Tower. You will be able to start next week if you like as I am doing both exits (MAP31/MAP16) together. I figure that the Tower will need to be at the highest point of the island so I will make the exit to your map at the base of a mountain with a shabby looking lift. It's up to you if the lift works and your map is in the Tower on the mountain or if you prefer the lift does not work and your map can be the mountain itself (MAP17 can then be the Communication Tower).

[The_MártonJános]

Grain of Salt said:

Finished.

I liked it. The armor progression was good, as far as I can tell. The weapons were comfortable. The texturing reminded me of Ultimate Doom. I liked the rocky section at the start. Teleporting the player to a set of blue bars they can't open straight after they get the blue key is a bit confusing, but it didn't slow the map down that much.

I ran past most of the monsters, just so you know. It's not your fault, I'm just really sick of killing cyberdemons right now.

You didn't tell you're doing UV-speeds with 0% secrets. But thanks.

Texturing reminded you of UD? Maybe you mean the dark Plasmarifle area in where are 10+ different textures and flats are jammed into. The gothic structure's inside was inspired by WOS MAP17, while the high sidewings with BRICK12 were made after WOS MAP14. However, the "Bruiser Brotherhood" trap after the blue bars and everything after that was built by scratch. The rocky section is actually Olympus' idea.

Teleporting right to the cave is supposed to be too easy. You have to take some challenge in order to make the Cyberdemon fight affordable.

[Grain of Salt]

[purist]

I think Vaporizer is taking MAP25. I assume MAP27 is free as that was his old slot. It's a fortnight on from MAP25 - any good for you?

If not we could see if Vaporizer wants to swap his slot back. We're one map short of filling all the map slots...

[Vaporizer]

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[Grain of Salt]

[purist]

No problem at all. I've given you MAP25 and Vaporizer MAP27 back. If Cell, Katamori and TheMionicDonut's previous requests still stand that means we've got a full house:

Map Slots

Episode 1: Evil Isle

MAP01 (01 NOV 10 - 07 NOV 10): Katamori. Escape from the Asylum.
MAP02 (08 NOV 10 - 14 NOV 10): Cell. Storage Basement.
MAP03 (15 NOV 10 - 21 NOV 10): Melon. The Stench of Freedom.
MAP04 (22 NOV 10 - 28 NOV 10): purist. Washed Up.
MAP05 (29 NOV 10 - 05 DEC 10): magicsofa. Map name TBC.
MAP06 (06 DEC 10 - 12 DEC 10): Vaporizer. Map name TBC.

Episode 2: Hell Exhumed

MAP07 (13 DEC 10 - 19 DEC 10): Cell. Deadly Exploitation.
MAP08 (20 DEC 10 - 26 DEC 10): Vaporizer. Sub-Station.
MAP09 (27 DEC 10 - 02 JAN 11): purist. Terminus.
MAP10 (03 JAN 11 - 09 JAN 11): A.Gamma. Map name TBC.
MAP11 (10 JAN 11 - 16 JAN 11): walter confalonieri. Descent into Underworld.

Epidsode 3: Fortress of Damnation

MAP12 (17 JAN 11 - 23 JAN 11): Olympus Map name TBC.
MAP13 (24 JAN 11 - 30 JAN 11): Cell. Map name TBC.
MAP14 (31 JAN 11 - 06 FEB 11): Vaporizer. Map name TBC.
MAP15 (07 FEB 11 - 13 FEB 11): purist. Map name TBC.
MAP31 (14 FEB 11 - 20 FEB 11): TrueDude. Map name TBC.
MAP32 (21 FEB 11 - 27 FEB 11): magicsofa. Map name TBC.
MAP16 (28 FEB 11 - 06 MAR 11): walter confalonieri. Map name TBC.
MAP17 (07 MAR 11 - 13 MAR 11): Malinku. Map name TBC.
MAP18 (14 MAR 11 - 20 MAR 11): Snakes. Map name TBC.
MAP19 (21 MAR 11 - 27 MAR 11): Cell. Map name TBC.
MAP20 (28 MAR 11 - 03 APR 11): purist. Map name TBC.

MAP21 (04 APR 11 - 10 APR 11): Katamori. Map name TBC.
MAP22 (11 APR 11 - 17 APR 11): TrueDude. Map name TBC.
MAP23 (18 APR 11 - 24 APR 11): Olympus. Map name TBC.
MAP24 (25 APR 11 - 01 MAY 11): A.Gamma. Map name TBC.
MAP25 (02 MAY 11 - 08 MAY 11): Grain of Salt. Map name TBC.
MAP26 (09 MAY 11 - 15 MAY 11): Cell. Map name TBC.
MAP27 (17 MAY 11 - 22 MAY 11): Vaporizer. Map name TBC.
MAP28 (23 MAY 11 - 29 MAY 11): Katamori. Map name TBC.
MAP29 (30 MAY 11 - 05 JUN 11): purist. Map name TBC.
MAP30 (06 JUN 11 - 12 JUN 11): TheMionicDonut. Map name TBC.

[Vaporizer]

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[The_MártonJános]

Full list looks good. Mappers appearing only once is a great solution to make exceptionally neat features into the WAD - I mention 2002ADO E3M5, which was designed by a person who didn't make any other maps into that WAD and the level just looks efficient.

[D_GARG]

PM me when this stuff is finished

sounds like youre up to something tremendous, with all this detail talk :)

[purist]

First rough draft of MAP15 - Septic Underbelly can be found here.

http://www.hellbent.iwarp.com/box_widget.html

True Dude and walter can now start MAP31 and MAP16 respectively. The exit to MAP31 is the narrow flesh hole, the exit to MAP16 is the lift.

Unfortunately, I've struggled for inspiration for this map more than the other two so it's a long way off finished. It's completeably but almost all areas are bare of any detail and infact probably need reshaping too. There's no gameplay to speak of either. Of course I'll fix both these things pronto and any suggestions to help me along the way are welcome - though obviously there's not much here to playtest yet.

Proto-story:

The concrete beneath you fell away under the stress of the powering turbines to be replaced by the shallow splash of a green corrosive sludge. You quickly move onto a nearby kerb and realise that there is a series of sub-rooms the UAC had built beneath the power station to process the radioactive discard.

You've not got far before the cursed voices filled your head again. Weaker than before, as if you've hardened to them, but still there. You head deep into the bowels of the plant where you find the source of your torment - another Spider Mastermind. You wonder how this could be and come to the conclusion that after the monsters had escaped they had raised a breeding ground or a portal to Hell. This is another concern for later, right now you concentrate on felling the Spiderdemon.

After you vanquished your foe you search grim flesh and marble for the access key cards you need to progress. You take a close look at a ripped open wall. It is man-made at it's deepest, with a lining of flesh covering it and marble brick covering that. It appears Hell subverts the material by first covering it in this rancid flesh that spreads accross walls like moss and then hardens somehow into satanic materials.

You are close to exiting when you find a small radio facility. Eager to test the powerlines you switch it on, just to find it's an internal network only. You're about to head on when a distress signal from two marines flashes on-screen. They say they're trapped in sector 31 - the UAC armoury. The time stamp on the recording is several hours ago, which means they outlived most of the other UAC staff. But they are probably dead now.

You're left in quandary. Do you take the decrepit lift up the mountianside to the Communication Tower or do your crawl through the flesh hole into the UAC Armoury and try to save lives?


I've tried to put a bit more effort into the exits areas to help walter and true dude out but they will be changed so they should not worry about amending them if it suits their needs.

@Truedude: - for the UAC armoury I was thinking it should be in an advanced state of satanic subversion. A techbase covered in flesh, gore, marble and gothic decor. If you're feeling adventurous you could use voodoo dolls that you have to protect as an unusual MAP31 gimmick or if not you could either have them all dead or show them to be in MAP32 and magicsofa can take that little subplot on.

In any case the map needs two exits. The one to MAP31 can be whatever you like but for the one to MAP16 you need the end of your map to include the large circular-ish area from MAP15 (entering from the silver door on the right), then leading outside the the mountain area and the lift. You can fill these areas with whatever monsters you like. We don't have to have the same monsters but we will need to match up our areas so we'll need to collaborate on this. Ask me if you don't understand.

[b]@walter:[/i] - You could either map the Communication Tower at the top of the mountain or, if you prefer, have the lift breakdown halfway up and have your map as the journey up the mountain and MAP17 can then be the Communication Tower.

[Vaporizer]

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[The_MártonJános]

Early you think?

Remember, the player wouldn't even think to move into that area again after he finally beat those Mancubi. It increases the difficulty of even finding that Big F*ckin' Gun over there. If anyone finds it by any reason, he would be either cheater or addicted secret-hunter. Trust me, it's hidden enough.

The MAP13 BFG, eh... another issue. That is specialised to be used first on MAP14 in most of the cases.

[purist]

I've not changed most of the light levels. That area will be dark but no so overwhelmingly so. There will be areas of light that to guide the player to the important areas. The goggles are a good idea. I have thought of a secret area near there so I'll put them in there.

XXXT is supposed to read XXXI - 31 in roman numerals. It's a visual clue as to which exit is which.

I deliberately made the location of MAP31 the armoury to give the player an incentive to go there. The BFG is only a secret in MAP07/MAP13 (though I agree the secrets in those levels are overpowered in general) so it could first given for 'free' in MAP31 and then again in the last episode as you say.

On my first play through of MAP07 I think the BFG and megasphere were the only secrets I found. I wasn't even secret hunting I just accidently went into the wrong room and there it was staring at me.

[Vaporizer]

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