Russian Army commercials

[DoomUK]

Kind of old, but I came across these for the first time the other day:-

Part 1
Part 2
Part 3

I find military recruitment ads cheesy and obliviously non-representative of the harsh reality of what life in the armed forces ultimately involves at the best of times (with certain exceptions, which appear to at least be aware of their own absurdity). But Russia's pro-military campaign takes it's efforts so seriously that it's quite extraordinary. By the time you factor in the Russian Army's infamous reputation for the savage and cruel brutality experienced by fresh recruits, it leaves your jaw on the floor in disbelief.

[gravager]

shucks, I can't watch em because I'm using dialup in the country right now. Are they better than the US Marine Corps ads with the CG rock climbing and slaying Balrogs with a sabre? My friend did a 4 year sentence tour of duty and did little to none of that stuff... mainly just a lot of drinking, war crimes, and running for dear life.

[DoomUK]

gravager said:

shucks, I can't watch em because I'm using dialup in the country right now. Are they better than the US Marine Corps ads with the CG rock climbing and slaying Balrogs with a sabre? My friend did a 4 year sentence tour of duty and did little to none of that stuff... mainly just a lot of drinking, war crimes, and running for dear life.

They're equally silly, though of a slightly different tone. There's a little story arc to three videos that barely has anything to do with what constitutes being in the military, save a few brief obligatory shots of exciting training shit involving choppers and RPGs and whatnot.

[Maes]

I take that these ads are for the contract service, not for the conscript service (that one needs no ads, only legal repercussions).

Still, I notice that in the mind of most people here the two have practically no difference, other that as a "professional contractor" you are being paid. I don't know exactly how Russia handles the co-existence of conscripted and professional enlisted personnel, but I can accurately portray what I witnessed during my 17-month tour of duty in the Greek army:

• There are several categories of enlisted professionals, with different names depending on what terms they were hired and when. These tend to change over time and with the current government. Some are into long-term employment contracts with some minimal rank advancements, while others are more like a voluntary extension of the tour of duty for a short term (max 1-3 years) with no rank or pay advancements.
  
• In general, all of these start off as privates, and can reach maybe the rank of a Master Sergeant after 20 years or so of service, if their terms of employment allow that.
  
• I know that e.g. the US Army assigns maintenance, catering etc. to private contractors, but in the Greek Army as of now these jobs fall on to conscripts, or, at most, to VERY low-level contract enlisted personnel (those that voluntarily extend their tour of duty).
  
• Conscripts are reminded all the time that they are in the lowest position, they undergo no serious combat training (except those in special forces, maybe) and they are "assigned" the most most menial and shitty (quite literally) jobs, and are subject to the most ridiculous heel-clicking discipline (shaving, squaring beds, locker inspections etc.) I've never seen a "professional", even at the lowest private rank, grab a broomstick or scrub a toilet, or even be subject to any of that crap.
  
• The most common punishment for conscript misdemeanors and transgressions is being given "jail days": those actually EXTEND one's tour of duty. Professionals must really do something heavy enough to fall into the civil penal code, and then there's a lot of cover-up and self-contained "military justice", so they usually get away with smaller or bigger fuckups.
  
• The fact that most of enlisted pros get the Corporal's chevrons after just a year or two of service doesn't help: it automatically brings them to the "pantheon of rank-bearers", and they feel so superior and "in change" that it's ridiculous!
  
• There's an abyss in attitude between a conscript and a "professional", even between privates: conscripts are constantly reminded they are slaves, while even the lowliest "pro-enlisted" is reminded that he is a colleague and a "stelexos" (a member of the "staff" or "management"), and of course with matching attitudes from their superiors.
  
• The role of conscripts seems to be just menial, unpaid, non-paid support jobs that could very well be performed by private contractors. Conscription seems just like a legalized excuse for forced work.
  
• On the converse, enlisted professionals tend to behave like they were 4-star general vs conscripts, which are usually the victims of their psychological issues and pettiness, with tolerance from their superiors. I kid you not, not even the most snobbish, self-inflated officer cadet has their attitude!
  
• Further strengthening the above points, is the fact that only professional enlisted personnel is eligible to be sent on international peacekeeping missions. Yes, I said eligible, not subject. There's actually a big waiting list, since their remuneration skyrockets. Therefore, enlisted pros are viewed as "the real deal", while conscripts....yup, slaves.
  
• The only notable exception to the above point (and probably the only case in the Western world where conscripts are serving in a peacekeeping force outside their territory) is the ELDYK detachment (Greek Force of Cyprus), to which conscripts are still routinely sent. This is not without controversy, as it would -in theory- violate the constitutional terms of conscription.
  
• De-facto, Greece cannot transition to an all-professional army simply because outsourcing all the aforementioned menial jobs to private contractors would be impossible, at least if a change in organization, size and attitude doesn't follow suit.
  

Just my thoughts.

[kristus]

Is the fat woman in the first video his mom or his bitch? Looks like he wants to fornicate with her.

[Sharessa]

Looks like every recruitment commercial ever.

[Maes]

They had also made one here in Greece, but it was only broadcast long ago for a very short period -afterwards, professional enlisting became a much sought-after profession because of its stability and relatively good pay, that it became the object the usual corrupt political favors -no point in broadcasting ads directed towards everybody, since positions are few and only for the privileged.

[Clonehunter]

Dude was about to do it with his mom I think in the first one... WHoah...

[Maes]

@Mom comments: you all either had a very clinical, detached relationship with your mothers, or simply need to get your mind out of the gutter. :-/

Also, I can't keep noticing how the ads try to mix the romantic image of the young man leaving for the army, with what is -today- a conscious professional choice. Makes no fucking sense. It would be like making a "romantic goodbye" ad for someone who joins the Fire Service or Police force.

After all, all those ads are for the contract service, not because people are drafted in WWII or in Otto Bismarck's Prussian army in the 19th century.

[Jodwin]

Maes said:

@Mom comments: you all either had a very clinical, detached relationship with your mothers, or simply need to get your mind out of the gutter. :-/

And they're not from East Europe.

[exp(x)]

Maes said:

@Mom comments: you all either had a very clinical, detached relationship with your mothers, or simply need to get your mind out of the gutter. :-/

I enjoy regular trips to the gutter, thank you very much.

[Maes]

This represents much better the expectations of whoever "enlists" today : just a well-paying, state JOB, with a funky dress code and some cool gear to go along.

At some point the girls ask the soldier "Where do you live/where is your house" and he replies "Here is my house. The day at work, the night at clubs".

It may not have that "Serve your country! Defeat global terrorism! Defend the interests of big oil companies!" appeal, but, hey, it's HONEST.

[Aliotroph?]

Join the army! Attract brainless sluts! Hilarious stuff. :D

Conscription seems like a good way to have a terrible army based on the tales of everyone I know who has had to endure it.

All the ads in Canada encouraging people to enlist seem to focus on playing with helicopters and radar.

[Technician]

In Ukrainian your military salary will buy you a coffee and a pack of cigarettes.

In Canada one of the big selling points of the military is they will pay for your trade. If you can handle the lifestyle then military is really the best way to start a career here.

[Aliotroph?]

I suspect they have to do that here just to keep people supporting the idea of maintaining an army. Researchers here intentionally downplay any military applications their projects might have in many cases so they don't scare off support.

[spicyjack]

Maes said:

Still, I notice that in the mind of most people here the two have practically no difference, other that as a "professional contractor" you are being paid. I don't know exactly how Russia handles the co-existence of conscripted and professional enlisted personnel...

The Russian army is similar to how you describe the Greek army, i.e. there's conscripts, and the professionals. Conscripts get the shitty jobs, and the pros get somewhat better treatment. Conscripts also get the shit literally beat out of them. Hazing in the Russian army is bad, there's either a few deaths or a lot of deaths per year depending on who you believe, the Russian government or western news services (because Russian news services are... wait for it... mostly owned by the government!).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dedovschina

I've heard of people bribing doctors to get out of conscription service, it's easy to do with enough rubles.

[Maes]

Technician said:

In Ukrainian your military salary will buy you a coffee and a pack of cigarettes.

You mean the conscript salary? Because even conscripts are being paid something symbolic -about 8.60 Euros a month, which is LITERALLY just enough for what you described. A conscript corporal got paid something like 9.10 (wow!), and, if you were married and had three children, you got 100 Eur, which ofc is nothing compared to the fuckups that conscription will cause to your family planning and economics.

The professionals here are getting a starting salary that's way above minimum wage (the new working class is called the "700 Eur generation", a "professional" enlisted soldier gets anything from 900 to 1100 as a first salary, depending on his particular professional category.


To make a comparison, I received the Reserve Officer's pay plus border service benefits, and I barely made over 700 Eur/month. No toilet scrubbing for me ofc, but I had much more responsibilities than any of those enlisted "pro" grunts weighing on me.

Aliotroph? said:

Join the army! Attract brainless sluts! Hilarious stuff. :D

Sure beats minimum wagin' by other means.

Aliotroph? said:

Conscription seems like a good way to have a terrible army based on the tales of everyone I know who has had to endure it.

It just has no reason of being, other than providing a low-cost workforce for those armies that can't afford outsourcing of logistics, and keeping a certain degree of social control by allowing, as spicyjack pointed out, bribing and political favoritisms. We're not in WW I, II or at Napoleon's and Otto Bismarck's times anymore.

Technician said:

In Canada one of the big selling points of the military is they will pay for your trade. If you can handle the lifestyle then military is really the best way to start a career here.

Again, that's a 100% professional army we're talking about. It's really no different than joining the police force of the fire service in a specialist or generalist position.

spicyjack said:

The Russian army is similar to how you describe the Greek army, i.e. there's conscripts, and the professionals. Conscripts get the shitty jobs, and the pros get somewhat better treatment.

Make that "entirely different type of treatment". Pros are considered colleagues (not that there aren't internal rivalries there, even between different categories of enlisted pros) by permanent personnel, while conscripts are, well, scum.

Other unintended consequence of pampering "pros" like that were discipline and authority respect problems with high-ranking conscripts.

In the past, conscripts could be make up to sergeants, and there is still the possiblity to serve as a reserve officer which automatically outranks all NCOs, enlisted or otherwise, as I did.

Because enlisted pros can become corporals only after 1 or 2 years and sergeants only after 7 years of flawless service, some resented being ordered around by conscripts with one ot two chevrons, or worse, by a conscript officer. This had the effect that the rank of enlisted sergeant was practically abolished, yet the rank of reserve officer still exists (is considered equal to warrant officer, just below 2nd Lt.)

[Clonehunter]

Aliotroph? said:

Join the army! Attract brainless sluts! Hilarious stuff. :D

Yes what I was thinking... I'm joining the Ukraine army! Bitches get ready out there!

[Mr. Freeze]

Clonehunter said:

Yes what I was thinking... I'm joining the Ukraine army! Bitches get ready out there!

Good for you.

I'm joining the Marines. I can't wait to re-enact DooM IRL.

[Clonehunter]

Oh thats cool. I never knew the Marines fought demons and crap... Must be some new secret mission stuff, stuff that hasn't found its way on the O'Reilly factor yet... :P

[Technician]

Mr. Freeze said:

I'm joining the Marines. I can't wait to re-enact DooM IRL.

Please, for the love of God, keep that to yourself.

[dontbotherwithmyname]

here in brazil the army got some crapy commercials (must be because military service is mandatory when you are a male citizen at age of 18 for a whole year) that show soldiers basicaly recreationing an a manly voice saying "join the army, become a man"

[Maes]

dontbotherwithmyname said:

here in brazil the army got some crapy commercials (must be because military service is mandatory when you are a male citizen at age of 18 for a whole year) that show soldiers basicaly recreationing an a manly voice saying "join the army, become a man"

Are you sure those are for the conscript service? And is service mandatory for everyone or subject to a lottery extraction/being specifically called to serve? Could you e.g. be eligible but never be called to serve anyway, similarly to the US "selective draft service"?

With Brazil's demographics, the Army should train literally hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of new conscripts each year, if they followed the Greek model (no lottery extraction, everybody WILL have to serve at some point, unless deferred for some reason which is far from automatic).

Still, since Brazil also partakes in international missions and no country I know of sends conscripts on those (with the sole single-sided exception of Greece in Cyprus)...the ads must be for the volunteer/pro service.

Still, those ads seem to focus on "serving your country"/"serve your next man" and "become a man"/"grow up" pretty much everywhere. I guess saying "be a part of the international war effort on terrorism"/"partake in questionable NATO interventions all around the world" doesn't have the same appeal ;-)

[Chow Yun Thin]

Mr. Freeze said:

Good for you.

I'm joining the Marines. I can't wait to re-enact DooM IRL.

What if the government decides for you to re-enact Half-Life 1?

[Maes]

Mr. Freeze said:

I'm joining the Marines. I can't wait to re-enact DooM IRL.

Hadn't you got some back/spine problem that precluded you from combat service anyway? Doom has no catering/logistics branch AFAIK ;-)

[dontbotherwithmyname]

in Brazil if you are born brazilian,have 18 years old, you must join the army (with lots of exceptions)for one year or you can be considered guilty of desertion
as far as i know, Brazil if you want to continue in the army after one year and become something more than a corporal and get a better paycheck you must go to an "army college" (specialization units) and become a graduated sargeant(it works diferent in the navy and airforce)
and theorically, yes brazil should have millions of soldiers, but most are dismissed becoming reservists (almost automaticaly).
Actualy Brazil's army have some few missions of peacekeeping occupations most notably in hati with unted nations and frontiers in Amazonia but those are not mentioned in the ads.
The ads are some sort of reminder
also there are different ads of the kind "become a graduate,get all
the honors\chicks\money" those are different between the army,navy and airforce

[Mr. Freeze]

Maes said:

Hadn't you got some back/spine problem that precluded you from combat service anyway? Doom has no catering/logistics branch AFAIK ;-)

No, that was only ROTC, which has stricter requirements. I gave my medical info to my recruiter, and he said it wasn't a problem.

Hell, a lot of stuff is still being thought out, and I'm not one to brag about these types of things (maybe before, but I'm over that now). It's one of the reasons I haven't been online too much recently.

[gravager]

The US National Guard recruiters that I was harassed by would sign you up if you have ~75% of your organs and appendages and could walk or roll into the office and sign the paper on your own power. "I think you'll go far in the infantry."

[Maes]

Mr. Freeze said:

No, that was only ROTC, which has stricter requirements. I gave my medical info to my recruiter, and he said it wasn't a problem.

...ROTC has stricter requirements than the Marines, which is considered one of the toughest non-special branches in the world?

Something's fishy here...better take a second look at that recruitment contract, son ;-)