Doom 4 should have...

[DooM_RO]

Doom 3 had cutting edge graphics and people still trashed it...

[Guest Unregistered account]

Imagine if Doom 4 had a system that somehow concerted original Doom maps into playable ones, linedefs vertices and all? That would be fucking awesome. now imagine if you could download any wad from the web and play it, including yours!

I know this is pushing it, but imagine playing, say... a model-clad Void. That's right, imagine if it was ZDoom compatible!

Needless to say, this would open up a whole lot more to the game. Especially if you could play and rate shared wads (what would they be called?) via /Idgames or something like it.

We can only hope!






And send Carmack a link to this thread via email.

[Koko Ricky]

I find myself mentally shaking my head at how many of you guys want it to be like the original.

[doom_is_great]

DooM_RO said:

Doom 3 had cutting edge graphics and people still trashed it...

Yes, because at the end of the day, gameplay is what matters. However, that doesn't mean that the new Doom needs to have mediocre graphics in order to have good gameplay. Hopefully, the team that is working on the new Doom will not repeat the same mistakes the id made with Doom 3 and will combine awesome gameplay with cutting edge graphics.

[DooM_RO]

Joe667 said:

Imagine if Doom 4 had a system that somehow concerted original Doom maps into playable ones, linedefs vertices and all? That would be fucking awesome. now imagine if you could download any wad from the web and play it, including yours!

I know this is pushing it, but imagine playing, say... a model-clad Void. That's right, imagine if it was ZDoom compatible!

Needless to say, this would open up a whole lot more to the game. Especially if you could play and rate shared wads (what would they be called?) via /Idgames or something like it.

We can only hope!







And send Carmack a link to this thread via email.

No...it will never happen and probably for the best. What are some of you people thinking??

[Doominator2]

DooM_RO said:

No...it will never happen and probably for the best. What are some of you people thinking??

I'm starting to think this thread is turning into "What do you want in Doom 4"

[Doomguy777]

DOOM 4 should have an engaging plot and should maintain a scary atmosphere but also be humorous. You see in my opinion the original DOOM wasn't straight up horror, but it wasn't straight up action. It was a black comedy, you know it was a dark sense of humor. It was like Evil Dead in Space. Honestly, if they make a DOOM 4 or DOOM reboot...

They should put it like this. You assaulted your superior officer because you didn't want to fire on civilians. You were assigned to Mars as a security guard. You just watch 80's action movies non-stop because you have no action for miles. Suddenly a distress beacon is emanating from Phobos. A message is sent "Something fraggin' evil is coming through the portals!" You are deployed to Phobos with your fellow Marines. The sounds of gunfire and yells echo. You hear the screams of your marines dying. You are the last one alive, armed with your Beretta M92FS and your brass knuckles you go inside the base.

After defeating the two Barons of Hell you go through the anomaly rift and end up on Deimos where Hell is merging with the overworld. You go to the Tower of Babel where you kill the Cyberdemon and then you drop down into Hell.

*Spoilers* At the end you kill the Spider Mastermind and you save the day. You walk into a portal only to end up on the Moon having to fight your way to the portal to Earth. You kill a giant demon known as the Behemoth. You arrive on Earth, everything is happy. Until you see your bunny's head on a stake and a city burning. Your character starts saying

"NO.... NO..... NOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!" And then the game ends off with your character going insane.

Also, DOOM 4 should have this element if you see so much blood and corpses and stuff... your insanity meter starts to build. Then eventually your insanity gets overloaded and you see demons that aren't even there. Pits that aren't even there. You can die in your insanity visions though, so be careful.

That's my humble opinion. :3

[Elaxter]

Doomguy777 said:

Also, DOOM 4 should have this element if you see so much blood and corpses and stuff... your insanity meter starts to build. Then eventually your insanity gets overloaded and you see demons that aren't even there. Pits that aren't even there. You can die in your insanity visions though, so be careful.

That's my humble opinion. :3

Shit son, you just went full retard.

[mrthejoshmon]

To be honest I would kind of like Doom 4 to have some unintentionally hilarious bugs.

Who doesn't want to see a Hell Knight fly about 500 meters into the air and have a complete fit when it hits the ground? How about a pinky having a jolly fun time turning inside out because he got trapped in a door? Having a marine go all octopus man whilst firing a plasma gun and absolutely annihilating the walls, ceiling and floor?

The bugs were probably the only reason I ever played Rouge Warrior all the way through... The bugs were great.

[ChickenOrBeef]

One thing I find essential to the fun of the classic DOOM games is how the player feels powerful, while still feeling challenged.

How was that done? The player felt powerful because he was able to kill most enemies in one or two shotgun blasts (or one super shotgun blast). There was also the gore and gibs that added to the satisfaction.

And the challenge was present due to the sheer numbers of enemies thrown at you and the potential of being cornered and quickly killed. And of course, navigating the levels was also a challenge.

Therefore, I hope most of the enemies in DOOM are handled the same way. If the player lands a shot on them, they should die quickly and gruesomely. But landing a shot might be difficult due to good A.I. (as seen in RAGE), and the player will have to land A LOT of shots to clear out all the immediate enemies.

There's nothing more boring than simply being faced with a small number of bullet sponge enemies. I hope DOOM 4 avoids that.

[Koko Ricky]

Elaxter said:

Shit son, you just went full retard.

A hallucinatory element used briefly might be interesting, perhaps in a more refined manner than Doomguy777 described.

[Kaskaum]

The shotgun in Doom 1-2 is super overpowered, it doesn't fit in reality. They realized it and in Quake it was fixed, Quake's shotgun is more realistic than Doom's.

I'm fine with a normal-realistc shotgun instead the overpowered one from classic Doom. Quake 1 has a more balanced-realistic shotgun and it is my favorite id shooter until now.

[Face23785]

Kaskaum said:

The shotgun in Doom 1-2 is super overpowered, it doesn't fit in reality. They realized it and in Quake it was fixed, Quake's shotgun is more realistic than Doom's.

I'm fine with a normal-realistc shotgun instead the overpowered one from classic Doom. Quake 1 has a more balanced-realistic shotgun and it is my favorite id shooter until now.

Unrealistic? Imps are about the same size as a human, and are made of flesh and blood. Why shouldn't they go down with one well-placed shell, just like a human would? Former Humans, 'nuff said. Once you start getting to the big bastards, like the Demon, it takes more than one hit. If anything it's underpowered sometimes. Why the hell should a flying skull be able to withstand a shotgun blast if I miss with a few pellets?

[Kaskaum]

Face23785 said:

Unrealistic? Imps are about the same size as a human, and are made of flesh and blood. Why shouldn't they go down with one well-placed shell, just like a human would? Former Humans, 'nuff said. Once you start getting to the big bastards, like the Demon, it takes more than one hit. If anything it's underpowered sometimes. Why the hell should a flying skull be able to withstand a shotgun blast if I miss with a few pellets?

The problem is not killing 1 imp with one shot, but killing 20 imps with one single shot like in D1-2.

[Krispy]

Kaskaum said:

The shotgun in Doom 1-2 is super overpowered, it doesn't fit in reality.

You do realize that in real life, a single shotgun blast will kill almost anything in front of it for 50 meters, right?

[ChickenOrBeef]

Kaskaum said:

The shotgun in Doom 1-2 is super overpowered

-Strafing to the side at 60 MPH is also "overpowered". Whether it's unrealistic or not, having fun is of the most importance. Most shooters in the modern era are trying to be realistic, whereas I feel DOOM 4 would stand out if it focused more on fun over realism, similar to the feel of the original games.

-With that said, I wouldn't say the shotgun is overpowered anyway. If anything, shotguns are usually underpowered in every other shooter. The regular shotgun in DOOM has the same capability as any other game's shotgun, along with the proper range of a shotgun (which most other games gimp).

-As for the double barrel shotgun, it can indeed take out 4 or 5 imps at once (if they're in the right position), but I wouldn't say that's unrealistic either. If you stand a few people 10-15 feet in front you and then shoot them with a double-barrel shotgun, they'll be blown away....

[Kaskaum]

The double barreled shotgun in the new order also doesn't kill 15 enemies in one shot. off course it is also more realistic than doom's one.

As I believe Doom will follow the route of the new order, mixing old school elements and a more realistic approach as well as some story, characters and cutscenes. I expect a similar 2 barreled shotgun in Doom.

And given the time to reload, the 2 barreled shotgun is not a suitable weapon to deal with many enemies. It was a very inneficient weapon to deal with more than 4 enemies in TNO, that's why they put the dual automatic shotgun to take its place.

[ChickenOrBeef]

Kaskaum said:

The double barreled shotgun in the new order also doesn't kill 15 enemies in one shot. off course it is also more realistic than doom's one.

As I believe Doom will follow the route of the new order, mixing old school elements and a more realistic approach as well as some story, characters and cutscenes. I expect a similar 2 barreled shotgun in Doom.

I haven't played the new Wolfenstein, so I can't really comment on this. But the double barrel shotgun in DOOM II could not kill 15 enemies in one blast. You're exaggerating.

Kaskaum said:

And given the time to reload, the 2 barreled shotgun is not a suitable weapon to deal with many enemies. It was a very inneficient weapon to deal with more than 4 enemies in TNO, that's why they put the dual automatic shotgun to take its place.

The double barrel shotgun wasn't efficient for large groups in DOOM II either. The chaingun was a much better choice.

[doom_is_great]

The shotgun in Doom has to feel beefy and do a lot of damage. It is Doomguy's main monster killing weapon. I don't know if one blast should take out like 5 enemies at once. However, one blast should definitely blow apart an imp or a zombie. One shotgun blast should blow off chunks of flesh and a couple of limbs of a regular human sized enemy. And the double barrel shotgun should just completely blow them in half.

All that may be unrealistic, but it definitely would make the shotgun a more satisfying weapon to use.

[Doomguy777]

GoatLord said:

A hallucinatory element used briefly might be interesting, perhaps in a more refined manner than Doomguy777 described.

What I mean by an insanity meter is that... if you see a lot of carnage... well you start to go insane.

When you start to go insane, your accuracy is slightly off and you start getting hallucinations of demons and Hell and stuff that's not really there. Also, you can die in hallucinations as well. I know I know, it's not really DOOM but it's kind of an interesting idea I came up with after hearing a lot about Lovecraft...

I just hope that Hell is more prominent in DOOM 4.... I would just love to see an entire DOOM game take place in Hell, that gradually goes from DOOM 1 to Lovecraftian to just straight up Hell like DOOM 64 and then well yeah.

Also, I really liked all of your posts on what DOOM 4 should have. Your posts were extremely logical and seemed to fit with DOOM 4.

On the topic of music I want a blend of heavy metal and ambience.

Certain levels should have heavy metal where it fits, and certain levels should have ambience where it fits. I certainly don't want 80's thrash metal blasting when I'm in a level I consider ambient. I also don't want PSX DOOM ambience when I'm in a level that I consider to be metal.

On the topic of gore, I believe blood and gore should be extreme. Not as extreme as a Cannibal Corpse album per say, but more than Shadow Warrior (2013) and enough blood and gore that makes people say "Wow this game is extreme and brutal." You know stuff that would make headlines on the news and stuff.

On the topic of actual level design, I'm thinking something more along the lines of John Romero's and Sandy Petersen's level design.

On the topic of demons, the demons in DOOM 4 should be a return to that Classic DOOM style kind of demon you know. Scary, deadly, and just overall frightening. There should be of course some new demons, but all of the demons should be Classic DOOM style.

Graphics... I really don't care about graphics, but for God's sake don't make it like RAGE in terms of textures. Also, show some damn color. Having grey-brown isn't scary. I want to see tons of color, the game should be extremely vivid and fast just like Classic DOOM.

Atmosphere, atmosphere.... Atmosphere is essential to every DOOM game. Atmosphere as in scaring the player, atmosphere as in drawing the player into another world.

The first DOOM game was a success in my opinion, and still holds up today because it can draw the player in. You don't need a Oculus Rift to get drawn in (though if you do have one it does enhance the experience by a longshot) and it's just.... I love how I actually felt like I was on Phobos, Deimos, and Hell! I was scared by the Barons of Hell my first time playing it because they were so massive and so big and I felt as if I couldn't defeat them. The Cyberdemon scared the shit out of me, because it looked like it was extremely giant and could easily kill me. The Spider Mastermind... needless to say.... the Spider Mastermind gave me nightmares.

Back on topic.... DOOM 4 should have excellent pacing, good atmosphere, an awesome kick-ass soundtrack (none of this stupid orchestral shit), tons of blood and gore, vivid graphics with good detail, abstract level design, no regenerating health, tons of secrets, none of that two weapon limit crap, none of that modern FPS bullshit.

(By modern I mean COD clone, I don't want a COD Clone. Honestly the last good modern FPS in my opinion was Soldier of Fortune (2000) but that's just my opinion).

The demons should scare me, it should be fun to play, and it should have a gripping story that's not in your face though.

I like the idea of having a story in an FPS. But I don't want it constantly in my face like so many modern FPS's do. Case and point, Bioshock: Infinite. The game is overrated to death for no damn reason. I just want to actually play a damn video game you know.

[Guest Unregistered account]

I really don't agree with the hallucinating stuff. While it's a good idea in theory, the sanity meter thing has already been done. This isn't Eternal Darkness.

However, I totally agree with most of the rest of your suggestions!

On the subject of atmosphere and textures, they should work hard to make the textures different and diverse, like... (come on, you knew this was coming, it's been said 50 times already...) ...like in the originals.

Meaning, some textures should be colourful and others should not. There should be the same basic texture themes as in (here it comes again!) ...the originals, that being base, hell and, possibly, depending on the storyline, city.

On the subject of atmosphere, there should be textures created for every occasion... just look at SP_FACE1; how many memories have you heard of from other people at seeing the trapped, suspended, warped souls of people, some in despair, others laughing (possibly in insanity...)?

Also on the subject of atmosphere, every level should be
designed by hand.
Get what I mean? The levels should be levels, not A-to-B tunnels disguised as levels. Have you seen that image of "FPS map design from 1993" (doubled with an image of E1M3's map) and "Modern FPS map design"? I want a geometry-based level editor which was used to make the actual levels. I know that -MANY- people will disagree with this, and that it's full of holes, but really... Doom 4 Should Have everything that made the original (there it is again! :D) so amazing and memorable.

I know that some disagreed with my idea about Doom 4 converting Vanilla maps into playable ones, but I really think this would expand Doom 4's bubble to a universe-sized one. Plus, it would draw in the attention of more long-time fans of the game who previously weren't interested in it.


Well, there's my post. I'm writing it now on my phone (which is super fiddly and frustrating) and it's 11:03 over here in the UK.
I know I'm pretty sure there are loads of problems with my post, and I guess I'll just have to wait for the quotes with things like "That wouldn't work" and "They're not going to do that" and "what were you THINKING?" to start rolling in.


In the meantime, good night!

[Kaskaum]

If Doom takes place in Earth, in a city(probably the one where the main building of UAC corp is set, and something went wrong and the city was overrun by monsters) that was attacked by those monsters, it can have a more open map, with a great exploration factor.

You can choose the way you want to go to reach objective. You can explore abandoned buildings, abandoned factories, walk through the streets filled with corpses and abandoned vehicles, meet survivors like you and team in order to face the monsters, try to explore a subway, etc.

A devastated city as a scenario would allow you a more open map which give you options to explore.

[Guest Unregistered account]

I dunno. Doesn't really sound like Doom, and sounds more like one giant map. :/

[Kaskaum]

Joe667 said:

I dunno. Doesn't really sound like Doom, and sounds more like one giant map. :/

We have only two options here:

1 - games takes place outside earth in a space base like D3 - Dead Space.

2 - game happens in Earth and has a city as the scenario with main building of UAC corp as the final part of the game(it sounds like Resident Evil with Racoon city streets -> Umbrella corp -> end game), I'm not saying that it must be 100% open, but have more open scenarios, a city would allow that.

Remember that Doom 2 took place in earth, but due to the very tech limitations at that time, we don't recognize earth at all, except in a few levels like Downtown.

[Guest Unregistered account]

... Or, the levels are split up into differently-themed episodes. Am I missing the point here? I'm kinda running low on brain juice. :/

If you're saying the entire game should be one massive map, I disagree. If you're not, sorry! I'm kinda slow with these kinds of things.

[Kaskaum]

And if they're not demons in this Doom reboot, but some mutations created by mistake of UAC corp? The trailer says that this technology was let to "evolve by itself"(from my interpretation), and it fused organic matter and mechanic parts from UAC weaponry resulting in those monsters. So it makes UAC some king of Umbrella Corp of Doom that created a great tech but failed to deal with it resulting in a great catastrophe, like the mutations that took over Raccoon city in RE.

[Doomguy777]

DOOM 4 should just be a continuation of what made DOOM 1 so great. DOOM 1 was great because it had a scary atmosphere. I know people will argue "But heavy metal soundtrack that's not scary! Ambience is!" No people, the sounds of the demons breathing down your neck and seeing them for the first time in realistic detail is scary as fuck. The fact that the demons were scary.

You know if they make DOOM 4 they should literally do what DOOM is.

DOOM is Evil Dead in Space. That's all it really is. It should include the dark sense of humor, and Doomguy should be made into more of what I would call an 80's action hero type. Something like Ash Williams, Dwayne Hicks, you know something like that. Also, we need to have a crapton more Hell in DOOM 4.

Hell should be like in DOOM 1, alien and foreboding. Scary, vast, open, and wide. It should scare the shit out of you. DOOM 3's hell felt generic compared to DOOM 1.... This should have all kinds of different colors. Not just fucking red, brown, black, and orange.

There should be episodes I guess. But I would really just like to see a DOOM game along the lines of this.

You are Cpl. Taggart or something. You are fighting Communists in Kyrgikistan somewhere in Central Asia. Your superior officer opens fire on peaceful protestors asking for you guys to leave. You assault your superior officer. You are comissioned to Mars as a security guard to work for the UAC. Suddenly, a distress beacon is coming from Phobos.

SOMETHING FUCKING EVIL IS COMING FROM THE GATEWAYS! LIFE SYSTEMS ARE BEGINNING TO FAIL, GATEWAY GONE CRITICAL! SHIT!

You are deployed to Phobos as part of the Foxtrot Team. Your team goes into investigate, you are left with a Beretta M92FS and your brass knuckles. They took all of the good stuff. 5 hours pass and you hear nothing. You turn on your communications device and hear this message.

CAN ANYONE FUCKING HEAR ME DAMN IT?! SOMEBODY! THERE'S THESE THINGS I DON'T KNOW HOW TO EXPLAIN IT, LISTEN IT'S KIND OF GETTING A BIT TENSE. WHAT THE FUCK... SHIT!!! AHHHHHHHHHHH!

Your commanding officer is dead. You are all that is left, you enter the Hangar locked and loaded and ready to kick ass.

You go through nuclear plants, toxin refineries, military bases, command control, labs, central processing, computer stations, and finally arrive at the geological anomaly. You fight two massive Barons of Hell and then you enter the anomaly. You fight your way to the Deimos teleporter. You teleport to Deimos.

On Deimos you see Hell merging with the base, you hallucinate visions that aren't there. Hell is merging with the base. You fight your way through the Deimos geological anomaly, and then head onto the containment area where there is tons of crates. You then arrive in the refinery, after fighting through the refinery you end up in the Deimos Labs complex. You fight through there and enter into the Command Center, where the Demons have merged Hell with Technology. You then enter the....

Halls of the Damned. It's desolate, bleak, and you truly feel alone. You kick ass as usual and end up in Spswning Vats. In Spawning Vats, you fight your way through there and end up in the Tower of Babel.

Arriving finally at last at the artificial construction built by the demons known as the Tower of Babel, you face off against what the demons have been building and perfecting on..... the Cyberdemon. This one however doesn't succumb to some stupid fucking Soul Cube. No my friend, you have to use your rockets, your plasma cells, and your fucking wits man. This thing is huge and it's tall. It's also very powerful.

After you kill the Cyberdemon, you look down beneath you and see that Deimos is floating above Hell. You descend into Hell, and you fight your way through the Hell Keep, the Slough of Despair, Pandemonium, the House of Pain, the Unholy Cathedral, Mount Erebus, Limbo, and finally arrive at the main base. Dis is the main base of the demons. You storm the front kill a bunch of Barons of Hell and then fight the hugeass Spider Mastermind which is really fast and can kill. It's huge, it's poweful, and it's got a big chaingun.

Once you kill it you fight your way to the teleporter, you end up on the Moon. You kill all the demons there, and then you enter the teleporter to go to Earth.

You then see your pet bunny Daisy impaled on a stake, enraged you yell and scream and see an city burning and you know what needs to be done....

Weapons:

UAC Model 651 Brass Knuckles "The Bonecracker"

UAC Model 100 "The Peacemaker" Beretta M92FS

UAC Model 123 "The Boomstick" Ithaca M37 Stakeout

UAC Model 561 "The Cleaner" Heckler and Koch G36 (NOT G36C! I MEAN A FUCKING G36 DAMN IT!)

UAC Model 763 "The Grinder" Handheld M134 Minigun

UAC Model 251 "The Ripper" Eager Beaver Chainsaw

UAC Model 305 Class A Rocket Launcher

UAC Model 659 Class A Phased Plasma Rifle

UAC Model 9000 BIG FUCKING GUN 9000

The Demons:


Former Humans should look like the Deadites from Evil Dead.

Former Pistolguy

Former Shotgunner

Former Chaingunner

Former Rifleman

Imp

Pinky Demon

Spectre

Cacodemon

Pain Elemental

Mancubus

Revenant

Lost Soul

Baron of Hell

Hellknight

Archvile

Arachnotron

Cyberdemon

Spider Mastermind


Also add in a few new ones.

The new DOOM game should be awesome overall. This is my opinion of what DOOM 4 should have.

[Guest Unregistered account]

Kaskaum said:

And if they're not demons in this Doom reboot, but some mutations created by mistake of UAC corp? The trailer says that this technology was let to "evolve by itself"(from my interpretation), and it fused organic matter and mechanic parts from UAC weaponry resulting in those monsters. So it makes UAC some king of Umbrella Corp of Doom that created a great tech but failed to deal with it resulting in a great catastrophe, like the mutations that took over Raccoon city in RE.

I apologize I'm rubbing this the wrong way, but it sounds to me like you're a bit too much of a Resident Evil fan.

Doom is not some "experiment goes wrong" game, although it seems that way at first. Then you find out it's an invasion from Hell.

Doom would not work if it was all city levels. It certainly wouldn't work if you could find and team up with survivors.


Reverting to your "Remember in the trailer when it says" point, it also said, at the start, "We let them in". But picking apart the tiny, nonsensical details is for the subliminal message/easter egg finders to do.

[ChickenOrBeef]

The trailer outlined the same story as DOOM 1 and DOOM 3, which was about UAC scientists accidentally opening a portal to hell.

As for DOOM 4 having an open world, it would have to be a different kind of open world than what we're used to. When John Romero was asked how he would handle DOOM 4, he basically said that he'd want to give the player choices on which level to go to next (along with a larger emphasis on competitive multiplayer).

Anywho, that's basically how I would do it. I wouldn't just have one big open world. There would still be levels you can enter, and the open world is just there to give you some choice on where to go next.

As a matter of fact, that's exactly what RAGE did. The open world wasn't anything crazy. But it allowed you to choose which "bandit hideout" or "authority base" to enter.

With that approach, most of the game is still about navigating interesting levels, rather than just walking around big areas of nothingness. It needs to be an immediate experience. This is fuckin DOOM.

[Kaskaum]

The only thing trailer says is that UAC developed some tech which allowed somehow, the fusion between organic matter and robotics. But somehow, it went in a wrong direction from what was planned resulting in those aberrations.

That cyberdemon has a weapon developed by UAC as his arm as well as mini reactors fused in his right shoulder that feed the weapon(probably a BFG.) So this tech clearly fused by itself organic matter with UAC weaponry.

I'm speculating that this tech has some advanced AI that made it gain consciousness, and it, maybe, felt that humans can harm it by disabling it. In order to protect itself, it started creating those aberrations to eliminate humans and grant its survival.(Like Skynet in Terminator).