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Hellbent

10 Sector wad sequel

Is this a good idea?  

28 members have voted

  1. 1. Is this a good idea?

    • Ummm... kinda interesting I guess?
      7
    • Retardis.
      11
    • This could actually be kinda cool.
      6
    • Hell yes!
      4


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10 premade sectors that get used on each map of a 30 map megawad. Each mapper has to use the same 10 sectors. There would be some sort of competition for people to produce the 10 sectors that would then be used in each and every level of the 30 level megawad. Thus, the 10 sectors would have to be such that many different possibilities could be used from them so that you'd have 30 interesting levels from them. Each mapper would then try to make as novel/interesting/fun map as they could with those ten sectors. Everyone would be using the same 10 sectors.

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I think that, even if the winning 10-sector map was clever in how it used it textures and how varied and such, the end result would still be that the maps would all feel too similar. The 10-sector idea is a challenging enough limitation on its own, and I think it just becomes too restrictive if more limitations are added.

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This might be interesting if the limit was to use 10 sectors of predefined heights, or of proportional heights, so people could scale it up or down to make their maps steeper or shallower. Or maybe a limit on the number of sides each sector can have, with one sector allowed unlimited sides. But just another normal 10-sector wad would be cool too.

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As the original WAD goes, I don't know if it had to do something with the prize, but there's quite an amout of amazing maps there (MAP20 blows my mind in particular). There's also a bunch of extremely annoying maps and even one which had no possibility to exit if I remember well (MAP16). Overall, I feel lucky that I had played it through (not equal to "finished every map"), a fantastic experience.

...It might work another time. If you find mappers which don't mind crazy restrictions, just go ahead (I voted hell yes!). Somehow I'm afraid that without a cool prize there will be no spectacular maps though (on the plus side, nothing really atrocious, but I prefer the uneven original than the "above average" 10secto2.wad...)

edit: of course, didn't read the OT properly. The same 10 sectors? Noooo. What about "10 sectors for 10 earth base maps, 10 city maps, 10 hellish maps"? (joke)

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I think it's probably more than long enough since the original 10sector competition that the same or similar rules could be used again without anything getting stale. There's been a lot of new community members since 10sector came out, who would be doing this for the first time.

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LogicDeLuxe said:

A sequel? How about an 11 sidedefs wad?

And then, 12vertex.wad.

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Katamori said:

I think, people better like 1024-style than 10-sectors style, but it's not sure...

A 1024x1024x1024 cube wad using GZdoom's 3d floors might be interesting for a change. You could stuff much more in such a cube than on a 2d map.

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I wouldn't expect a 3D-floor-based 1024-cube project to ever happen. It doesn't seem to me there is much overlap between the 1024 mappers and the 3D-floor mappers...

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LogicDeLuxe said:

A 1024x1024x1024 cube wad using GZdoom's 3d floors might be interesting for a change. You could stuff much more in such a cube than on a 2d map.


No, I don't think about a cube. I think about the levels, where the moving place is reduced for an 1024x1024 square.

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I'd rather attempt to create a map with 10 sectors that I create myself. I used to make maps with a shareware level edtior that had a 25 sector limit. Cool and long gone stuff came from that.

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dutch devil said:

long gone stuff.

too bad. :(

It is 10 years since 10sector was released. Seems the higher restrictions I suggested is a mixed bag with more in favor of the original rules than the higher restrictions I've proposed. I guess the idea was... limit one kind of creativity, that of making your own 10 sectors, to increase another, what you do with the 10sectors given to you.

Frodo: "I wish I could make my own 10 sectors."
Gandalf: "So do all who live to see such times, but that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the sectors given to us."

Any other variations on this or other limit inducing ideas?

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The 10Sectors idea should be put away as the concept got old as soon as 10Sectors.wad released. Anyway, what about another number of sectors? 20? 25? 50? Even 100? Or a step-by-step increasing number of sectors from 10 to 300 (320)? That would be a better idea after an outdated concept.

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Cell said:

The 10Sectors idea should be put away as the concept got old as soon as 10Sectors.wad released. Anyway, what about another number of sectors? 20? 25? 50? Even 100? Or a step-by-step increasing number of sectors from 10 to 300 (320)? That would be a better idea after an outdated concept.

esselfortium said:

I think it's probably more than long enough since the original 10sector competition that the same or similar rules could be used again without anything getting stale. There's been a lot of new community members since 10sector came out, who would be doing this for the first time.


What about 30 levels; sectors 1 through 30? First level is one whole whopping sector. Level 2 is two sectors, level 5 five sectors, etc... level 30 is 30 sectors. Mappers would then have to fight to secure a map slot, or there could be up to 10 mappers competing for each map slot. ie. up to 10 mappers are given the green light for each map slot, and the best map of the 10 gets selected in the final release. The people who like the Wolfenstein-level wad idea might want to do the early maps--people who want more freedom can choose later maps--and those who like a balance can choose middle maps.

ducon said:

2 sectors ?
________________[/b]
A shell, an imp.

One sector would have all the shells, and on the other, the imps. :D I think 2 sectors could actually be kind of interesting. I'm sorta curious what 30 maps, all with different 2 sectors, would look like and how disparate the maps would manage to be from each other. You could do themes for each episode, or maybe even two themes per episode for a total of 6 themes, to help increase the diversity, but I almost think it would be more interesting to leave it wide open... 2 sectors.

The first thought might be: "but your sectors could only be 24 floor height in difference". Not necessarily so, but even so, you could create an interesting ambience in a wad where one sector's height is 24/80 and the other is 0/384. You could also have fun with a teleporting map where one sector's height is 0/72 and the other is 192/264. I think, despite its severe limitation, interesting things could happen. It might (and in my opinion, should) force the player to really focus on how to make maps that are fun and entertaining given the severe limitations. It would really force mappers to think differently than they are used to; which will force them to come up with new concepts and ways of doing things, like setting up battles and architecture etc... that they just would never do in a normal map or even a 10 sector map.

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Cell said:

The 10Sectors idea should be put away as the concept got old as soon as 10Sectors.wad released. Anyway, what about another number of sectors? 20? 25? 50? Even 100? Or a step-by-step increasing number of sectors from 10 to 300 (320)? That would be a better idea after an outdated concept.

dutch devil said:

I used to make maps with a shareware level edtior that had a 25 sector limit.


2-sectors was also done, though as a deathmatch wad, not a single-player one. 25 sectors would give more freedom than ten sectors, while still giving a challenging constraint.

You could also have ten of these twenty-five sectors be predefined if you want.

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Gez said:

You could also have ten of these twenty-five sectors be predefined if you want.

That might be interesting. Becuase they you see recurring sectors that might help unify the whole thing, while there are still lots of original sectors. What about 10 same + 5 mapper freedom for a total of 15 sectors?

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Hellbent said:

What about 30 levels; sectors 1 through 30? First level is one whole whopping sector. Level 2 is two sectors, level 5 five sectors, etc... level 30 is 30 sectors. Mappers would then have to fight to secure a map slot, or there could be up to 10 mappers competing for each map slot. ie. up to 10 mappers are given the green light for each map slot, and the best map of the 10 gets selected in the final release. The people who like the Wolfenstein-level wad idea might want to do the early maps--people who want more freedom can choose later maps--and those who like a balance can choose middle maps.


I recalled that idea getting a start by someone else in this forum... sure enough:

http://www.doomworld.com/vb/wads-mods/47836-doom-extreme-limitations-map02-released/

I always thought that was an interesting concept. Also, haven't you been meaning to say 32 maps this whole time?

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Gez said:

I wouldn't expect a 3D-floor-based 1024-cube project to ever happen. It doesn't seem to me there is much overlap between the 1024 mappers and the 3D-floor mappers...

Heh, at one point Mechadon and I were throwing around ideas to do something along those lines for a Vaporware map.

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Hmm, I'd be up for a 10-sectors wad, if only so I can make another wad with "Sector" in the name without making a sequel to that map...

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back to the two sector idea. Extending it to 3 sectors.

So imagine adding the following wrinkle... try to bear with me because I think this is a pretty interesting idea, though it may be a bit hard to conceptualize.

Every map has three sectors. But two of those sectors are setup to implement the donut action as discussed in 'disappearing donuts' in the doom general forum, but in a way that is compelling, rather than goofy. The challenge of the project is to use the unique properties of the donut action to make an extremely interesting map, where bridges rise, doors lower, barriers come down while pillars rise etc. etc.--there's a whole world of options that have never been explored. Think about it.

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That might make an interesting experiment for a single-map wad, but an entire community project based around the one gimmick would get old quick. May as well start a project with the rule that you can only use one linedef action type per level.

Really, though, a project with minimal sectors doesn't need any more limitations. Constraints may increase creativity, but having too many will choke any potential contributers.

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Maybe every level could have one static sector, and every other sector has to be dynamic, with changing heights, lights, or elevators/lifts? (Think of that one right side room in Icarus map01.)

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esselfortium said:

Heh, at one point Mechadon and I were throwing around ideas to do something along those lines for a Vaporware map.

Heh, yea I remember talking about that. I might still try it one day. 1024^3

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Xaser said:

May as well start a project with the rule that you can only use one linedef action type per level.

Actually, this has potential. But you'd technically have to allow three linedef actions: 0 (no action), an exit level action of the modder's choice, and whatever other "normal" action is the limitation of the level, to the modder's choice as well.

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