Tell me about other key weirdnesses

[The_MártonJános]

I suppose everyone had read about the issues with keys. The major highlighted arguments were about these:
- TNT MAP31: Yellow key doesn't show up
- DooM E2M3: Uses the wrong blue key?
- DooM II MAP17: Blue and red keycard and then yellow skullkey.

Now, that's it. Then, I decided to bring up some further topics about these 2:

1. Keyless levels. Except for some first and boss levels, there are also ordinary levels (E2M5, MAP20, etc.) which doesn't include any further keycards or skullkeys. I wonder then how mappers do tricks and twists without the usage of either too much switches or a way linear flow. I reckon everyone has an idea here.

2. Multiple placed keys. Depending on the skill level, keys may appear in more than one place. The only examples are E3M6, MAP06 and Evilution's MAP20 so far. Since I haven't remet this kind of key placement in any WADs (do anyone think this concept is confusing or aren't I so familiar with DooM modifications??), I'm asking you whether you will reuse this kind of key placement.

[printz]

There was a Wolf3d 1.1 levelset that used a maze made of identical keys. Pick up one of those keys, and you'll no longer be able to open the correct door from the large number of similarly looking locked doors.

Relatedly, I hope you're all aware that Doom keys you already have won't display any message when picked up. And that if you pick a new key, the screen flashes stronger than when you pick something else.

[purist]

MAP02 in my Hell Bent episode had 2 red keys so you could take one of two routes. MAP05 leaves the red door open but with a mob of revenants behind it almost forcing you to close it and then find the red key to reopen it when you're better equipped. MAP07 doesn't have keys at all.

I'm always interested at how mappers use original ways to force players to progress.

[DoOmEr4LiFe]

purist said:

MAP05 leaves the red door open but with a mob of revenants behind it almost forcing you to close it and then find the red key to reopen it when you're better equipped.

That's a really neat idea.

[elic]

MAP12 has a red door but no red key and the key doors on E4M7 aren't marked.

[The_MártonJános]

Processingcontrol said:

MAP12 has a red door but no red key and the key doors on E4M7 aren't marked.

Both are interesting. However, E4M7 contains loads of pointless dead ends, and you don't even need the blue and the yellow key to complete the level itself. As for the E2M3 issue above, hell yes: there are some "red keycard"-signatured openable columns in the sewer.
MAP12: I have been wandering around for long hours searching for the non-existent red key to find any way to get out of that "Caco-processing" center then.

[printz]

Processingcontrol said:

MAP12 has a red door but no red key

Interesting. Maybe it's for DeathMatch so players from the cacodemon lift room can get out?

[Hellbent]

printz said:

Interesting. Maybe it's for DeathMatch so players from the cacodemon lift room can get out?

Good point. id didn't want you to get out in single player, but didn't want people to get stuck in there in dm, so they made it a red key--it also lends a certain amount of mysticism to it.

[elic]

printz said:

Interesting. Maybe it's for DeathMatch so players from the cacodemon lift room can get out?

On the doom wiki it says that the key was present in early versions of doom 2, but it was taken out because "it was decided that it was not necessary in order to complete the level." When I first played that level I spent 5-10 minutes looking around the room for the key, until I finally gave up.

[Hellbent]

e3m1 and e3m5 both have key doors that have no indication of their requiring keys. And one of them doesn't even have a key to open it with.

[Gez]

Processingcontrol said:

On the doom wiki it says that the key was present in early versions of doom 2, but it was taken out because "it was decided that it was not necessary in order to complete the level." When I first played that level I spent 5-10 minutes looking around the room for the key, until I finally gave up.

Yeah, for the longest time, my version of Doom II (the one I had on floppies) had a red key here, and silver bars in front of the shotgun guy in MAP02. When I got back into Doom, and got the IWADs from Steam, I searched everywhere for that key that I remembered existed...

[elic]

I think that on MAP20 of TNT there is a red key on some source ports, and a red skull on others.

Hellbent said:

e3m1 and e3m5 both have key doors that have no indication of their requiring keys. And one of them doesn't even have a key to open it with.

Really? I don't think e3m1 does, maybe e3m5.

[Daiyu_Xiaoxiang]

Processingcontrol said:

I think that on MAP20 of TNT there is a red key on some source ports, and a red skull on others.



Really? I don't think e3m1 does, maybe e3m5.

I just remember that E3M1 have its door permanently locked in the large red room before exit. As for E3M5, where? Do u mean that yellow key which most players doesn't know where to use?

[Hellbent]

Daiyu_Xiaoxiang said:

I just remember that E3M1 have its door permanently locked in the large red room before exit. As for E3M5, where? Do u mean that yellow key which most players doesn't know where to use?

jeeez, yeah, i'm getting e3m9 and e3m1 muddled. On e3m9 the door is blue-key locked but on e3m1 it is just locked with no key associated with it.

as for the yellow key on e3m5, for those who don't know about it I won't describe it in detail. :p

[The_MártonJános]

As for E3M1-E3M9, I suppose somebody wanted to do a "Warrens" for MAP12 as well. There would be a Cybie/Mind fight and then, get the red key, go back then and see some changes in the map!

[Daiyu_Xiaoxiang]

Hellbent said:

jeeez, yeah, i'm getting e3m9 and e3m1 muddled. On e3m9 the door is blue-key locked but on e3m1 it is just locked with no key associated with it.

as for the yellow key on e3m5, for those who don't know about it I won't describe it in detail. :p

The yellow key door in E3M5 does really exist. It is in one of the very corner in the large outdoor area.