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General Rainbow Bacon

highly difficult non-slaughter maps?

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The first example which came to my mind is Memento Mori II Map28. There are no overweight hordes of baddies, but the tricky monster layouts of this epic map make it very difficult for the classic Doom standards.

Is it appropriately challenging for you, or too easy?

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I didn't count monsters, but let's define non-slaughter as a map with less than 200 monsters...

The following are difficult due to little ammo/firepower:

10sector MAP08, MAP17
2002ado E4M3, E4M7
crusades E4M3, E4M5
ruinbros MAP06

Little health:

end1 E1M5

Puzzle:

d2reload MAP18

Barrels and bazooka troopers everywhere:

obtic MAP12

Speed is required:

paganrun

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Play, Icarus. It has a lot of great challenging maps that have some very tricky combat situations, that are achieved without spamming.

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I consider any map that requires ammo conservation a non-slaughter map. To me, the definitive aspect of a slaughter map isn't the monster count, but limitless or extremely plentiful cells/rockets that allows for a BFG/RL spam-a-thon.

Therefore, I would consider many of DD's maps to be highly difficult non-slaughters, like Abyssion, Elysion, and his maps in DR2008v2.

Just off the top of my head, I'd say Nilla map 07 and TDE are also good candidates. Erik Alm's Eaxt both 01 and 02 aren't slaughter maps either, imo.

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Qaatar said:

I consider any map that requires ammo conservation a non-slaughter map. To me, the definitive aspect of a slaughter map isn't the monster count, but limitless or extremely plentiful cells/rockets that allows for a BFG/RL spam-a-thon.


Good observation. Never thought of it that way.

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Thanks guys, that's enough for now. Gonna play these in order. Working on beating through MM2 map 28.

E: oops. I started playing MM 1 map 28, which is also very challenging, and I gotta say very fun and not frustrating at all.

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Yes, definitely Malcolm Sailor's maps.

Also Killzone 1 and Killzone 2 by Donald R. Howard are worth a mention.

But perhaps the classic of the genre is Slayer by Richard Wiles.

Death Tormention II (by Paul Corfiatis, Kristian Aro and Chris Harbin) and Murderous Intent (by Jay Townsend) are worth a mention too - the latter is fairly monster-packed, but certainly not slaughter-style.

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Xtroose said:

I found Cyberdreams to be quite challenging.


Yeah, this wad is used to kill Cyberdemons using only pistol and fist. This is to tell players of ability to kill Cyberdemons by different methods like telefrags and crushing. The first few levels are alright, by it's hard after that. So it's challenging instead

Hell revealed map 26(Afterlife) is a good example of highly difficult non-slaughter maps. In this map there's hordes of monsters in all 3 different areas, with 5 Cyberdemons inculded. However there's no BFG and plasma gun, only chaingun, rocket launcher and SSG is given. I have seen Megasonic023(Nevan) playing this map before, he use about 30 minutes dealing with this map using only SSG and rocket launcher, and there are heaps of time nearly killed.

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Cold as Hell It usually throws packs of monsters at you but compared to slaughter maps they tend to be considerably small. It's the new health system that really makes it challenging. The risk of bleeding out from getting hit really discourages you from simply wading through lesser enemies' projectiles like in some doom wads.

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DoomHero85 said:

Thanks guys, that's enough for now. Gonna play these in order. Working on beating through MM2 map 28.

E: oops. I started playing MM 1 map 28, which is also very challenging, and I gotta say very fun and not frustrating at all.


Yes, this great level is more challenging than most maps in the "traditional" (pre-HR) wads, but MM2 MAP28 is harder by about one point on a ten-point-scale, so I think you should try the second one of these MAP28's after finishing the first one :-)

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Yeah, still haven't beaten mm1 map 28 yet. Got about 70% of the way and got killed by one of the cybers. It wasn't this one, but the one on the staircase almost made me pee. Y'know, you expect a baron, some revs, maybe an archie, but I go around the corner and OH FUCKK, RUN AWAYYY!!

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