Sandy Petersen Worship Thread

[The_MártonJános]

In fact, DoomII's E2 should make sense in every cases. Let's see:
MAP12 - Quite like a district with some industries
MAP13 - Well, it does its role as a "downtown"
MAP14 - Dimension jump?
MAP15 - Same as for MAP13, but with way higher buildings
MAP16 - Kinda cool stuff, but some of the buildings don't make sense at all
MAP17 - Affordable as being inside some "apartmen"
MAP18 - City "backrooms"? Even towns should hide something more hellish.
MAP19 - Same as for MAP18, maybe describes a separated building far from the suburbs
MAP20 - A hellish city infested by blood and lava. Interesting.

[Vegeta]

>DeathevokatioN

I wasn't claiming extreme realism, just more resemblance with what the episode is about (a city). E1 isn't realistic, yet you can't identify it as something else than a base.
All episodes in DOOM and DOOM 2 overall look like what they're supposed to be, but DOOM 2 has some random maps here and there that just look random and could fit in all episodes (the only thematic thing on these is the sky texture).

If you like random maps as you explained, then we have different tastes and that's perfect. I prefer thematic episodes with no more realism than E1. Same goes for mods, I prefer mods that follow a theme rather than collections of random maps with no connection at all.

[Xaser]

myk said:

The fact that DOOM II avoids realism in an environment that asks for it is itself a statement, and a reason why people highlight this aspect when they defend it.

I approve of this message.

Though yeah, the transition to and from MAP14 was always rather jarring. Same with MAP26 -- I still imagine that these two maps were swapped at some point. ;)

Back to the first part -- Personally, I do think that Doom the First was more interesting architecturally in several parts, but I don't find Doom 2's as terrible as many would say.

[Gez]

myk said:

More realism. As far as I'm concerned, when people bring up this "hey it's not as convincing" thing about DOOM II, yes, it is indeed about realism to a big degree. Just look at many posts complaining about it. They're mostly like "the city levels don't even look anything like a city."

In my case, the city levels aren't those with which I have a beef. They're evocative enough, even if simplistic and not as visually interesting as E1 and, yes, E2. No, the levels I don't like in Doom II are those like The Crusher, Tricks & Traps, The Pit, Gotcha or The Chasm. Those that feel like they're built around a gimmick rather than around a place; no matter how abstract and unrealistic may be the rendition of that place.

[printz]

MAP14 looks just as "hellish" as MAP18 does. On the other hand, brown brick is nothing to fret about. The map looks like a private property built over some creeks. The ground outside looks like parking space. The bridges have barriers (as shutters) for control.

[myk]

Gez said:
No, the levels I don't like in Doom II are those like The Crusher, Tricks & Traps, The Pit, Gotcha or The Chasm. Those that feel like they're built around a gimmick rather than around a place; no matter how abstract and unrealistic may be the rendition of that place.

Hmm, I wonder what your conclusion would have been had they been named with "mimetic" place names, as in DOOM or many of the levels in the second episode of DOOM II, rather than self-referential characterizers. For example, Gotcha is a bigger and meaner E3M6-type level, except the name speaks of the encounter with the bosses instead of a location.

The naming style of DOOM II levels tends to highlight level design or playing-board conceptions, more than try to add an idea to the level structures in order to complete the meaning of a fictional place. That is, DOOM II is more bent toward action than recreation. There's an emphasis on what you're doing there, rather than where you are.

The earlier levels are mostly like industrial plants or installations and otherwise tend to be either smaller or maze-like, much like the bulk of DOOM. That's not surprising considering the work of American McGee dominates that part, and he liked NIN and the like. He seems to have chosen a certain theme deliberately. From an interview:

Whats your favourite style of level (base/metal etc..).

During Quake it was the metal theme. During "DOOM" it was anything brown :) Right now, in working with Quake 2 textures I have found that there are a lot of themes I like working with. I think this is because our artists have done such a great job of making all the textures look like they came from the same world.

He seemed to like "mundane" and metal or industrial themes rather than fantastic ones. That explains why he felt comfortable with various themes in Quake 2, as it didn't include the brighter "hellish" or "Gothic" stuff found in the previous games.

Levels 24 and 26 are a couple that arguably help people feel that the hellish section of DOOM II, the "other side", is something embedded in the Earth itself, with the boss stuck in the depths much like Satan is buried in Hell's deepest layer in Dante's Inferno, or some warped mesh between Hell and the bowels of the Earth.

[_bruce_]

All hail Sandy.
Love his maps.