Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
Technician

The Other id Mapper Thread

Recommended Posts

Enough with Petersen. We need to analyze the rest of the cast. We all know John's contributions and arguably he has the most recognized maps, but what about McGee's or Tom's early maps? To be completely honest, I have a hard time recognizing McGee's maps from Petersen's but of course, I'm not very observant. What are some of McGee's traits?

Share this post


Link to post

McGee had a very different style from the other id guys, particularly his frequent use of right angles as outside borders of areas. I'll always remember him for MAP14/MAP22, which always felt like they belonged together and matched well stylistically.

I will always remember Tom Hall for E5M4. Damn him for (not really) making me detail that layout. :(

Share this post


Link to post

McGee's maps seem to be a balance between Petersen's and Romero's. They have an equal focus between gameplay and detail, unlike Romero's maps which focus more on detail, and Petersen's maps which focus more on gameplay. For me, he's probably my favorite id mapper.

Share this post


Link to post
Processingcontrol said:

McGee's maps seem to be a balance between Petersen's and Romero's. They have an equal focus between gameplay and detail, unlike Romero's maps which focus more on detail, and Petersen's maps which focus more on gameplay. For me, he's probably my favorite id mapper.

Really? I don't think Romero focused much on detail at all in many of his maps, though creating interesting and appealing geometry was definitely something he excelled at. When I think of Romero maps, I think of the layout interconnectivity, the usage of space and vertically-oriented design, and such. Many of Sandy's and Tom's maps, in comparison (especially in Doom 1, like...nearly all of episode 2) were very flat and 2D.

Share this post


Link to post

I always wondered what a John Carmack map would be like.

It would probably make you travel through time or something.

Share this post


Link to post
Sigvatr said:

I always wondered what a John Carmack map would be like.

It would probably make you travel through time or something.

Or rocket jumping, or he'd code in a solid rocket for the player to fire and hop on board.

Share this post


Link to post

What I found funny is that in Wolfenstein 3d, where Tom Hall and John Romero made the maps, all the more complex, labyrinth-like and sprawling the whole space maps are by Tom Hall, while Romero's are pretty small (episodes 3 and 5).

Share this post


Link to post

Sigvatr said:
I always wondered what a John Carmack map would be like.

Remember the end of The Matrix where Neo saw the virtual world as source code? Probably something like that...

Share this post


Link to post

Funny, I thought until now MAP14 was Romero's. You learn something new every day.
Certainly, American's maps are among the best in DOOM2.

Share this post


Link to post
esselfortium said:

Many of Sandy's and Tom's maps, in comparison (especially in Doom 1, like...nearly all of episode 2) were very flat and 2D.


Map10 has always stuck out in my mind for this.

I'm a huge fan of McGee's mapping. Map02-Map07 is probably my most frequently played stretch of maps from Doom2. I think he new how to strike a balance between the clean architecture and the good gameplay. Map02's battle near the blue key is a good example of putting the player in an awkward position.

Also, of all of id's mappers, American seemed to have the most emphasis on attempting more realistic lighting. The switch on Map04, the balance of dark and bright... I've always like that about his design.

Share this post


Link to post
Never_Again said:

Certainly, American's maps are among the best in DOOM2.

Except MAP22, IMO. Try to survive that. Probably you're a good enough player, but I don't find the map elegant at all, because you're forced to go through a cramped place with slime, specters, chaingunners, revenants and no cover. How's that?

Share this post


Link to post
printz said:

Except MAP22, IMO. Try to survive that. Probably you're a good enough player, but I don't find the map elegant at all, because you're forced to go through a cramped place with slime, specters, chaingunners, revenants and no cover. How's that?


Honestly? That's one of the most memorable hell maps.

Share this post


Link to post
Never_Again said:

Funny, I thought until now MAP14 was Romero's. You learn something new every day.

Well, to edumacate the curious:

That's all the people who made at least one level for either Ultimate Doom or Doom II.

Share this post


Link to post

Oh yeah, Shawn Green! I wish he made more maps for Doom and Doom 2, E4M3 was showing some promise.

As for Tim Willits? I dunno the current roster of id Software mappers, but I'm assuming he's all over the mapping there, right now.

Share this post


Link to post
Xtroose said:

@Gez: You forgot one of Sandy's most memorable maps - MAP24: The Chasm.


Don't you mean 'most infamous'? I doubt there's a single person out there who likes those narrow ledges the player has to navigate.

Share this post


Link to post

I think Doom 2 probably would have benefitted from a few Tim Willits maps. I've always had a soft spot for E4M9 and wish it had been a bit bigger.

Share this post


Link to post

So basically, Peterson made 2/3rds of the Doom and Doom2 maps. Quite well played by him then, I'd say. His map designs are the bulk of two games that withstood the test of time very well. However, a lot of the gems are from Romero and McGee, it'd seem. May be they just stand out so well because their styles are fewer and further between though.

Share this post


Link to post
Graf Zahl said:

Don't you mean 'most infamous'? I doubt there's a single person out there who likes those narrow ledges the player has to navigate.


Wrong!

Processingcontrol said:

McGee's maps seem to be a balance between Petersen's and Romero's. They have an equal focus between gameplay and detail, unlike Romero's maps which focus more on detail, and Petersen's maps which focus more on gameplay. For me, he's probably my favorite id mapper.


Wrong! Both mappers were oriented around gameplay. They just much different styles. What comes to mind is Romero introducing the Archvile in MAP11, or imps throwing fireballs at you from high up cliffs.

It's hard to determine American Mcgee's mapping style. His gameplay seems to be a slightly more sloppy version of Romero's blastfest style, but his maps are much more detail oriented. The computer terminals in MAP02, the arches in MAP14, and the hanging silver ceiling pillars in the Soulsphere secret in MAP22 come to mind. Probsbly the first indications of "detail" in Doom mapping before TNT Evilution came out.

Share this post


Link to post
Gez said:

You forgot about Theresa Chasar, the girl from Doom 3 with the lost soul. In any case, I think the Tim Willits maps were too playful, nonserious, easy and so on. I'm looking at ATTACK.WAD from the Doom ML as well. Let alone RAVEN and that other thing, available on idgames >:(

Share this post


Link to post
Graf Zahl said:

Don't you mean 'most infamous'? I doubt there's a single person out there who likes those narrow ledges the player has to navigate.

It's one of my favorits.

Share this post


Link to post
Cell said:

Does anybody wonder then why doors couldn't be identified which key is required to open them?...

Maybe because that's Doctor Sleep's mapping style? I don't think Crossing Acheron has any marked doors as well?

Share this post


Link to post

I just found out that McGee is the one who adapted Doom 1 maps to Jaguar. While I hate what he have done to E1, his retexturing of E2 and E3 is quite nice. Especially E3M6. Also I love how he eliminated ceilings in some places, like parts of E3M4, or central room in E3M7 - made the maps look cooler

Share this post


Link to post

Hmm, what's the source? Does it say anything about the Jaguar-'exclusive' maps (Tower of Babel/Hell Gate and New Hell Keep)? Might be a neat thing to keep in mind in case I ever get 'round to updating Lost Episode.

Share this post


Link to post

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
×