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Xtroose

North Korea shells South in fiercest attack in decades

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Nothing good can come out of this.

Reuters said:

North Korea on Tuesday fired dozens of artillery shells at a South Korean island, killing two soldiers and setting houses ablaze, in one of the heaviest attacks on its neighbor since the Korean War ended in 1953.

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Not good at all... I don't think South Korea will start a war though, because apparently North Korea has the fire power and ability to flatten South Korea's capital city within 3 days of South Korea declaring a war.

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Xtroose said:

Nothing good can come out of this.


I guess North Korean victory parades don't count?

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So we'll finally see creepy vs. Really creepy?

Bring it. Bitch wants to be ronery no more? we can arrange that.

and by arrangement, I mean rearrangement of Kim Jong-Il's atomic structure.


In all seriousness, though, the Korean War never really ended, and I think this is more than enough proof of that.


EDIT: Jets have been scrambled. And I don't mean New York.

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DeathevokatioN said:

Not good at all... I don't think South Korea will start a war though, because apparently North Korea has the fire power and ability to flatten South Korea's capital city within 3 days of South Korea declaring a war.


That's assuming that SK won't be backed by the US. And our foreign relationships indicate otherwise.

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A war would be very one-sided towards the ROK in purely military terms. The DPRK used their massed artillery to fire over 200 shells at the island, hitting civilian areas, managing to kill a grand total of two people.

Of course, that's not the whole picture. The DPRK firing blindly (pretty much their only strategy considering how old, and ironically, neglected their army's equipment is) would be able to cause significant economic damage to the South, whos economy is pretty much reliant on the exports of Samsung, Daewoo, etc.

And that's why South Korea doesn't want a war. Any talk of the North's military prowess is about 40 years out of date.

/E it's doubtful the US will do anything to protect Japan / Korea / Taiwan in the event of any war short of WW3. Guess which country has your economy by the balls.

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Bucket said:

SK could easily win a war. Just hire all those Starcraft athletes as military strategists.


Heh, it's ironic that as I read in a military magazine, NK's military dogma is all about massed infantry tactics and attack initiatives, and that in case of an attack they would simply attack back in numbers, not hide underground like e.g. the Vietcong. Also their being communist and all...who's da real Zerg now, biatch? Eh? Who da Zerg rush, eh? Kekekeke

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Mr. T said:

Guess which country has your economy by the balls.


China with it's manufacturing, massive exporting, and manipulated/deflated monetary value.

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bytor said:

China with it's manufacturing, massive exporting, and manipulated/deflated monetary value.


QFT and actually, what the US would do in the case of war would probably depend largely on what China would do.

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Mr. T said:

/E it's doubtful the US will do anything to protect Japan / Korea / Taiwan in the event of any war short of WW3. Guess which country has your economy by the balls.



If the US wouldn't counter such an attack they'd lose all credibility in the world they still have. They are basically forced to respond if such an attack escalates into a real war. In the end an attack on one of these countries may well mean WW3 (or better USA vs. China as most European countries would probably stay out of such a conflict)

That said, the North Korean government is truly mad and I doubt that China would back them up if the conflict escalated. In the current situation NK is an asset to them but as soon as it turns into a liability the friendship may well be over.

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Graf Zahl said:

If the US wouldn't counter such an attack they'd lose all credibility in the world they still have.

Yes, but on the other hand, there are a lot of people out there who'd like to see us stay out of other countries' businesses. It's almost a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation.

Graf Zahl also said:

That said, the North Korean government is truly mad and I doubt that China would back them up if the conflict escalated. In the current situation NK is an asset to them but as soon as it turns into a liability the friendship may well be over.

I actually read something about that last night. In a way it makes sense, too. China probably doesn't want to get into too big of a war with the US since they export so much stuff over here. I'm not sure how much of their economy is based on exports like that, but I'm guessing it's a sizable chunk. So if North Korea starts something major, China is likely to condemn them for not upholding peace and then turn on them.

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Partition36 said:
I actually read something about that last night. In a way it makes sense, too. China probably doesn't want to get into too big of a war with the US since they export so much stuff over here. I'm not sure how much of their economy is based on exports like that, but I'm guessing it's a sizable chunk.

Just China? While much of the world is growing economically, the US is stagnant and a big chunk of its essential sales in grain and cattle go to China or its allies, especially Russia. It's a two way thing and the US has practically nothing to gain economically from attacking North Korea. This isn't Iraq that's flooded with oil, the invasion of which gave a crippling blow to the diplomatic image of the US, and we're not in the cold war era anymore. South Korea has more to lose than it could gain from an escalation, and North Korea isn't in a position to do more than threaten or peck at its neighbor.

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The US's credibility is already down the crapper ever since the Iraq war. Without going in full wartime mode, and its associated drastic measures (war bonds, commandeering, conscription, etc.), the US military cannot stretch more than they already are. They can handle two heavy deployments, they are filled with Afghanistan and Iraq.

Why do you think that Iran and NK are multiplying provocations and grandstanding postures? They know the self-appointed World's Policeman can't do crap about them. The only means of retorsion that the USA still have without straining their resources too thin is the nuclear option. And well, the entire point of that bomb is that you don't use it. Nuking NK would be the best way to start WW3 with China, so it's just not possible.

The only thing the western world can do about this is engaging in stern finger-wagging, which may even escalate to raising angry eyebrows. That's about it.

Graf Zahl said:

In the end an attack on one of these countries may well mean WW3 (or better USA vs. China as most European countries would probably stay out of such a conflict)


Ever heard of NATO? An actual war between the USA and China would be WW3 and would involve European countries and other NATO members.

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Gez said:

Ever heard of NATO? An actual war between the USA and China would be WW3 and would involve European countries and other NATO members.



Last time I checked the NATO's business was still to assist in case of defense, not offense. If the USA would enter a Korean conflict it'd be an act of offense and wanna bet that most of Europe would simply bail out if that happened?

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myk said:

Just China? While much of the world is growing economically, the US is stagnant and a big chunk of its essential sales in grain and cattle go to China or its allies, especially Russia. It's a two way thing and the US has practically nothing to gain economically from attacking North Korea. This isn't Iraq that's flooded with oil, the invasion of which gave a crippling blow to the diplomatic image of the US, and we're not in the cold war era anymore. South Korea has more to lose than it could gain from an escalation, and North Korea isn't in a position to do more than threaten or peck at its neighbor.

You have a point, it is a two way street, and it's not just between China and the US. However, the US could have more indirect economic incentives to get involved. North Korea doesn't just threaten South Korea, but Japan, who's also a close ally of ours. North Korea putting a strain on either of these two could also cause mutual harm to our economies. However, this isn't as big as oil or other natural resources, so I'm not sure just how far this plays into it all.

Either way, nobody better screw with my anime imports.

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I imagine that South Korea will probably go up, kick a little ass, and come back and that might be the end of this. However, there's definitely chance for escalation.

This could be averted as long as Jong-Il doesn't do something stupid, IE, shell a commercial center. The South will be on his ass in a big way and that could make things really bad for both of them, because Kim's just crazy enough to make this a mutually assured destruction thing. He has enough soldiers to at least storm the border even at tremendous losses.

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The premise of that Homefront game is so ridiculously implausible I literally laughed at the screen a few times while watching the trailer. A sizable portions of North Koreans are starving to death. Their weapons are ancient compared to any other regional force, let alone the US. They can't even launch a medium range missile correctly, let alone put something into orbit. They're just on an endless quest to posture against the US to get some sort of concessions. Were a war to start, you'd see NK crumble in a half second if China didn't fight its war for it.

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Shaikoten said:

The premise of that Homefront game is so ridiculously implausible I literally laughed at the screen a few times while watching the trailer.

this. that scenario is about as probable as the day of the triffids.

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I'm pretty sure that game/video was actually made by North Korean propagandists. It's exactly what they want us to believe could happen, even though it pretty obviously couldn't.

Even if China did come to North Korea's aid in a war, which I frankly doubt, they would basically lose what legitimacy they have left and would end up more or less a Chinese vassal state, since they would be relying on Chinese force to prop their regime up. They have no source of legitimacy at home or abroad beyond their oversized military, and that military really wouldn't have much clout in an actual war.

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StupidBunny said:

I'm pretty sure that game/video was actually made by North Korean propagandists. It's exactly what they want us to believe could happen, even though it pretty obviously couldn't.


The game was written by John Milius, an American born in Missouri who has "fascination with guns and the military." Unless there was sarcasm there that I couldn't detect, you honestly feel like such a person would be writing some propaganda for the North Koreans?

In other words, the premise of the story sounds precisely like what those idiotic scumbag neocon warhawks - a la Bill O'Reilly, would concoct. Most of these guys are actually retarded enough to believe that NK actually has the capability to launch a nuclear icbm into US borders. What a joke.

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Guys it's just a trailer for a fake game. Did you go nuts over Red Dawn too? Damn

As for the actual situation, one of these days North Korea is gonna wake up and find itself dead, covered by a massive starcraft stadium

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Craigs said:

Why can't we all just get along?

Because we're 7 billion people, with opposing personal interests, mostly struggling for survival on 60 million square miles of land?

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Ralphis said:

Guys it's just a trailer for a fake game. Did you go nuts over Red Dawn too? Damn


No, but I'm from Missouri and it has a lot of aspects of ignorance that Missourians would buy into. So for me, it's like, "Oh great, another reason for people to think this state is composed of dumb rednecks."

That's only 85% true.

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The best thing to do with North Korea is keep neutral relation as best we can. In a couple of decades that country will completely die of famine. Their killing themselves and only a few North Koreans know this. Sad, really.

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In a couple of decades North Korea will still be ruled by a despot with an army that's more decorative than functional. Apart from having fewer peasants available to watch the grand parades, nothing's going to change until China withdraws its support.

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