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Mr. Freeze

The REAL id mapper thread

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Because some Mormon dude, the creator of Bad Day LA, and Walton Simons' voice actor never came close. This thread is dedicated to John Romero, specifically his level design.

If you don't like John Romero's maps, then you aren't allowed to post in this thread because I say so. You have to make another thread for the map designer you like or the moderators will totally ban you.

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He pretty much managed to make you his bitch with the Doom 1 levels, Ultimate or not. The Doom 2 levels are a bit tamer and rarefied, even if interestingly designed (lots of secret passages).

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Does anyone have any ideas what episode 2 and 3 would look like if Romero was the main mapper for them? This question has been lurking in my mind ever since checking out the "Doom done the way ID did" thread by Hellbent.

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Well Episode 1 tended to get the most "love" of all the doom episodes. Episode 2 and 3 were a bit of a rush job and John Romero left Sandy Petersen to do the mapping after E1 since he was intelligent and fast, which left John Romero to work on other important stuff that I think really helped Doom feel very 'balanced' all together. So I think Sandy Petersen was a fantastic help in that respect. In Doom The Way Id Did, I'd like to see a full megawad showing E2 and E3 getting as much love and attention as the first episode did.

I however, am more biased towards John Romero's mapping. He makes really cool looking rooms and utilizes doom's sector effects, lighting, and linedef action to their best ability. His gameplay is pretty straightforward so you can quickly crash through his maps without much trouble. I tend to prefer that over Sandy Petersen's maps because I don't really want to have to do much "thinking" while playing doom. I just want to see monsters, and I want to shoot monsters, and I want to watch them die.

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Mr. Chris said:

Does anyone have any ideas what episode 2 and 3 would look like if Romero was the main mapper for them?

Probably they would have appeared much more coherent between each other, and you'd find more repeated motifs. If you want such an example, you have Heretic.

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Mr. Chris said:

Does anyone have any ideas what episode 2 and 3 would look like if Romero was the main mapper for them? This question has been lurking in my mind ever since checking out the "Doom done the way ID did" thread by Hellbent.

Likewise, I can't be the only one who wonders what E1M4 would've been like if it ended up as an E2/E3 map.

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Dragonsbrethren said:

Likewise, I can't be the only one who wonders what E1M4 would've been like if it ended up as an E2/E3 map.

??? What do you mean

Probably it would have used textures from the registered version, and likewise lost souls, cacodemons and a plasma rifle. It would have fit together with the rest of Episode 2, seeing it's partially made by Tom Hall, same guy who partially did E1M4.

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Captain Toenail said:

I always found episode 1's maps the dullest, you know I actually preferred Doom II (please don't kill me)


Too late, faggot. You should've posted in one of the other threads. Now the mods are gonna come in here and fuck you up so badly, you'll have to look up to look down.

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E1 is good... but the action doesn't really grab me as much as it used to. Sometimes I wish I suck at DooM just so I can get that genuine feeling of tension back when I play E1.

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DeathevokatioN said:

E1 is good... but the action doesn't really grab me as much as it used to. Sometimes I wish I suck at DooM just so I can get that genuine feeling of tension back when I play E1.

Try -fast or nightmare mode?

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E4M2 is John's best map, and also one of the best maps in the entire franchise. It just screams Doominess.

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And the amazing thing is that E4M2 took roughly 6 hours for Romeo to make.

esselfortium said:

Try -fast or nightmare mode?


Doh! Why I didn't think of that. Thanks! :)

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Sigvatr said:

E4M2 is John's best map, and also one of the best maps in the entire franchise. It just screams Doominess.

While i like this map a lot, I can't abide by this statement. While interesting concept it doesn't capture doom classicness. It's more of a new kind of doom with it's own merits but not as good as classic doom.

OT: why do chemist professors clear their throats all the time?

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Knee Deep in the Dead is the best set of maps to play Nightmare mode on.

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E4M2 and E4M6 are really quality maps. Everything else in E4 seems to be quite unrealistic, and that "E4M4 is MUCH easier than E4M1" issue just makes my blood boil as hell.

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While I have alot of respect for Petersen's maps, Romero's really hit it on the nail for me.

Realistically, compare these two maps and tell me which one you'd rather play.



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Marnetmar said:

Realistically, compare these two maps and tell me which one you'd rather play.

The first, because it looks really nonlinear and exotic.

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Vegeta said:

Not only that E4M1 is even harder than E4M7.

True, but E4M4 is quite "pussy" related to the other maps.
In the difficulty raising order, I've got this (E4M1-E4M7):
1. E4M4
2. E4M7
3. E4M3
4. E4M5
5. E4M2
6. E4M1
7. E4M6

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printz said:

The first, because it looks really nonlinear and exotic.


Okay, how about the cyber/spiderdemon arenas then?

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I like e1m6 more than e3m6, but I don't like the stacked repetetive areas in the top part of the map, mainly the bottom area of the 3 stacked areas I wish was asymmetrical. Where do those images come from? Some of the sequence of the letters didn't make sense, for insance, I don't understand why v,w and x come when they do (why not earlier after O?) Also Y and Z should be swapped.

Cell said:

True, but E4M4 is quite "pussy" related to the other maps.
In the difficulty raising order, I've got this (E4M1-E4M7):
1. E4M4
2. E4M7
3. E4M3
4. E4M5
5. E4M2
6. E4M1
7. E4M6

yeah, pretty much.
E4M3
E4M4
E4M7
E4M5
E4M2
E4M1
E4m6

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Marnetmar said:

Okay, how about the cyber/spiderdemon arenas then?


I don't recall the boss arena on E1M8 being much more than the arenas on E2M8 and E3M8.

You've made your opinion clear. Don't try to force it upon others.

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Hellbent said:

mainly the bottom area of the 3 stacked areas I wish was asymmetrical.

The way I play E1M6, I never ever have to visit that area. It's like a dead zone for me.

What does Central Processing when referring to space buildings mean anyway? It also comes up in Doom 3. I always saw E1M6 as a military base instead, with barracks (west), exercise polygon (east) and headquarters (north).

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Is that Mt. Erebus on top? I love that level! Bit of a weird one, but that's generally why I like it.

On the other hand, I've never been that great of a fan of e1m6, actually. Good level but by far not my favorite.

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I reckon the cause of Marnetmar inserted those 2 maps is they're using the same soundtrack :D

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Marnetmar said:

Okay, how about the cyber/spiderdemon arenas then?

Fun fact: none of the boss areas were designed by Romero. Yeah, even E1M8 isn't by him. The closest you get to a Romero boss arena is E4M6 (which does use a boss special as you need to kill the cyberdemon to open the exit) and MAP29 (where you can, however, completely ignore the cybie).

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I think this idea of judging a map based on an editor screenshot is flat-out ridiculous. The only way to judge a map is to play it.

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Grazza said:

I think this idea of judging a map based on an editor screenshot is flat-out ridiculous. The only way to judge a map is to play it.


This.

And I'd rather play the Sandy map anyway, because that map has a bigger impact on me whenever I play it, and is imprinted in my brain as one of the most sinister maps to ever haunt my childhood. Much more interesting than hallways connecting rooms.

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