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General Rainbow Bacon

Bug in map 21 of newgothic.

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Oh, yeah, this. I forgot about this. Does it crash all the time or just when you die and press the use key to restart the level?

I don't think there's anything wrong with the level that would cause the game to crash, but I've noticed if I die and try to restart the map, it locks up. I've found it doesn't crash if I turn off the code that speeds up a restart of the same map by avoiding recalculating a load of data you already calculated before. I haven't debugged it further than that, though.

(I will say there are a couple of minor level bugs that I wasn't able to report before the wad was released. Firstly there's a cyberdemon that doesn't teleport, I think it is thing 3556. Also, the door out to the west needs to be openable from the outside otherwise you can get stuck, I think that's linedef 4647 but it's hard to say for sure because Yadex can't open maps that big)

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Okay good you're probably seeing the same crash I have. I think I found a fix for it but if you can't wait that long it seems a workaround is to run the map in Boom compatibility (-complevel 9)

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Are you guys using PrBoom+ 2.5.0.7 or above ? This map uses extended nodes or something. I've never had any issues with this map, though I've never ran it outside of -complevel 9 (why would you want to, btw ? it's the recommended complevel for this mapset).

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DoomHero85 said:
I can wait, but do you think AB would mind if we fix that cyber so it does 'port in?

Well it's usually customary to leave that sort of editing up to the author, if he can drag himself away from UAC Ultra II or whatever it is he's spending his time on these days :P

(Although the text file does say "You can modify the levels if you want, but credit me if you do" it's still probably better to have one official version to record on)

Phml said:
Are you guys using PrBoom+ 2.5.0.7 or above ? This map uses extended nodes or something.

Yeah and the function that loads said extended nodes is the function I just fixed :)

Phml said:
I've never had any issues with this map, though I've never ran it outside of -complevel 9 (why would you want to, btw ? it's the recommended complevel for this mapset).

Well, I think the operative word there is "recommended". I never use complevels unless I have to (i.e. am recording something, or of course making sure a bug I found isn't because I'm running the map in a complevel it's not meant for...)

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I don't know if you care about it, but I've noticed there's a rather large HOM on map13, due to some giant lift (sector 1579, probably?) lacking textures I think. Monsters who get stuck in it seem to be flying too.

It's not too obvious in software, mostly because it's an area far away from the player so you can't really see it unless you look for it, but in GL mode it shows (and sometimes there's a solid red "error" color displayed).

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DoomHero85 said:

The map 21 thing is still not fixed unfortunately.

Which part, the door or the cyber? You made sure to go the long way around right? Because the sector that wakes up the cyberdemon is actually to the south of the red key in the hell cave area after the spidermasterminds, not in the start or in the outside areas.

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DoomHero85 said:

2.5.0.8 when did .9 come out?


it has been invented because of this thread so you can play it

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DoomHero85 said:

2.5.0.8 when did .9 come out?

2.5.0.9.test, not 2.5.0.9. entryway gave the link above.

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ArmouredBlood said:

So anybody have anything else? I'll see about uploading the revised version in a few days if people are still looking for bugs ...

Sorry for not getting back to this sooner. I still think there are serious problems with the monster distribution system in map13. I managed to come up with a way to record a demo so hopefully you can see what happens. The only way I could do this was to cheat horribly, with a dehacked patch that is effectively equivalent to god mode, but I hope you still get the idea. From the text file

- there is a large crowd of revenants which never teleport out
  of the north holding area

- many more monsters get stuck up on the cliffs and are hard or
  tedious to shoot

- twice, a cyberdemon attempts to teleport down and gets stuck
  in the wall, or on a ledge

- several monsters found around the map have been knocked up
  onto ledges by infighting and cannot move

- the huge numbers of monsters on the moving floor and rising
  platform can cause the game to lag quite a lot on slower
  machines. Particularly noticable is a periodic slow-down/
  speed-up cycle when the floor is moving / stops moving.

In conclusion, I believe both teleporter systems, the north in
particular, are overly complex, fragile, and prone to breakage.
The map is probably fine for casual play, but I believe a
redesign of the systems is needed if any sane attempts are to be
made at maxdemos.
reading through which again sounds rather harsh, since I'm sure Phml will make it look easy anyway, but it's just what I observed :P I'm not even sure it's easily fixable without having to rework half the map either, so you might prefer to just leave it as is, which is fine with me, I'm still having plenty of fun with it as it is :)

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Right, I remember I said I'd record on that one but kinda forgot about it after a hour or two. Well, nothing seemed exceedingly hard to me, but I haven't come close to a max run yet, and with the monster count and amount of time that would be invested in a run it does sound bad if the teleporter breaks.

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Alright, I played it for a bit and so far at least one of the HOM is still there (and rather obvious in GL mode). Died at 5200/5800 15 minutes in due to my own stupidity, didn't see anything too hard - well, the map itself is confusing because it's so open, but other than that...

... Wait. I was actually playing the old version, didn't notice you named the bugfixed version NewGothic instead of NGmvmt1. Heh.

So, okay, this time I'll play the right one.

Edit : the new version crashes at Map13 loadup with a "no subsectors in level" error message in PrBoom+ v2.5.0.6. Works fine in 2.5.0.7, but I'm wondering why doesn't it work in 2.5.0.6 seeing as it used to.

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Here's my max attempt.

Lasts about 27 minutes. I typed IDDT near the exit door to check where the missing monsters were. As RjY noted there's lots of monsters that don't teleport, about 70 of which I couldn't find a way to see and kill. These monsters roam in sector 770, which doesn't seem to have any purpose. I've noticed you've put block monsters line everywhere except at linedef 6244, which is how I assume they're getting through (could watch the demo with IDDT to check, I suppose) ; so they enter by the east side miles away and can't come back to the teleporting area after that because of the block monster lines.

My general strategy was to get to the BFG, and provoke infighting while killing archies until numbers dwelled down to a reasonable level to go pick up keys. The map confuses me a lot and I don't know all about it, so I run aimlessly most of the time, the goal was to check if things worked.

Nothing seems too hard in my opinion, except maybe the cybies in corridors near... whatever key is there (can't remember). There's no BFG ammo at all so you either have to make back and forth trips, kill archies and other stuff slower with rockets, or be extremely skillful.

I noticed an imp reliably gets stuck in a wall near the red skull ; then later in the demo you can see a revenant doing the same thing. I think it's because they teleport to linedef 6412 which closes in to the wall.

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Phml said:
... Wait. I was actually playing the old version, didn't notice you named the bugfixed version NewGothic instead of NGmvmt1. Heh.

Ah, sorry, yes I've just been copying the new versions over the top of the old ones as they've been released, and I never updated the filename :)

I'll do that now while I think about it to avoid further confusion.

Edit : the new version crashes at Map13 loadup with a "no subsectors in level" error message in PrBoom+ v2.5.0.6. Works fine in 2.5.0.7, but I'm wondering why doesn't it work in 2.5.0.6 seeing as it used to.

It seems to have switched to ZDBSP XNOD nodes at some point. Can't think how I missed that, but it's good - it means my code for loading the new node format works on a second testcase :P

Oh and thanks for debugging, finding linedef numbers and suchlike. Unfortunately for me the map is too big and has too many sidedefs for Yadex to open...

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Hmm, when last I looked at map13's monster teleporting I thought it was inefficient but honestly I'm really on the fence about this map - I like the architecture, but the gameplay ... need to fix it. I think I'm going to completely rework those teleporters and a couple areas in it. Oh and I think I forgot to change back from -extended after saving map21 somehow.

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Will Newgothic end up becoming a full 32 level megawad ? I ask this because level 31 does not have an exit to map 32.

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I don't think so. I'm planning on making another set when things quiet down and after uacultra 2 is done. An update on map13 - I've blocked off the southeast area, redone the monster teleporters, and am currently detailing the first floor of the revised yellow keycard building. I hope to finish it next week after finals, though I might take a break between studying and churn it out.

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Ah! Which also means - as far as I can tell - that the player has to IDCLEV or warp to map 21, as there is no progression to map 21.

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hawkwind said:

Ah! Which also means - as far as I can tell - that the player has to IDCLEV or warp to map 21, as there is no progression to map 21.


Well, I COULD copy DV2 and put skipmaps for maps 17-20 ... but I don't really want to do that.

In other news, I finished (not quite tested) renovations on map13. Opinions on the new areas and more restricted main street? And the monster teleports are MUCH better now. Last full iddqd run I had, all the monsters (except 3 cybers that I mislabeled their teleport line as a WR floor raise ... yeah) ported in.
http://www.mediafire.com/?19q2khuzj5lq8j1

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