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hardcore_gamer

Revenants, the most annoying enemy in the game.

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What? We're talking at least 3-5 seconds though. Your reaction time is that slow?

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Reevys said:

Personally, I always have and always will find the Chaingunner the most annoying enemy in Doom. I hate, hate, hate, hate, hate absolute bullshit Chaingunner closets that pretty much rape you instantly, sending you from 200% health and armour to 0% in a matter of seconds.


I actually love the chaingunner, because while chaingunner closets can indeed be extremely annoying its just a yet another zombie monster in almost any other situation except with a badass chaingun.

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The only time when I really despise chaingunners is when the Plutonia trick of putting them on a tower with a hidden arch-vile constantly resurrecting them is used.

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Gez said:

The only time when I really despise chaingunners is when the Plutonia trick of putting them on a tower with a hidden arch-vile constantly resurrecting them is used.

I find that to be quite a neat trick actually.

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40oz said:

What? We're talking at least 3-5 seconds though. Your reaction time is that slow?

I mean the kind where more than one of them pop out on either side of you and their bullets stop you from moving, or if you can move, cover just isn't close enough.

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killer2 said:

I find that to be quite a neat trick actually.



It's still extremely annoying not being able to get rid of a monster that's constantly reducing your health. Fortunarly this trick is very rarely used.

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Graf Zahl said:

The Centaurs are fine if you have some nice strong melee weapons like the fighter. Try to kill them with the Mage's wand for a change and probably you might understand why they are annoying. They take forever to kill.

Zap them with the wand so they stay still, then mosey up to them and place a couple (as in 2) of flechettes at their feet. Then watch them die.

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I don't think the revs themselves are annoying, it's just how mappers use them. This is basically their train of thought:

"We need a good monster type to fill in this teleporter trap. I know! I'll use revenants because they're tough and you can pack them like mexicans!"

As a result, you end up hearing about a hundred revenants in their little teleporter room, screeching their annoying screech for half the fucking map. Doesn't help that their cry is the most annoying one in the game.

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killer2 said:

I find that to be quite a neat trick actually.


Really? I can't get myself to appreciate that trick at all, especially since I don't know how to effectively kill the archvile inside or get the chainguns yet, so its a constant health AND ammo depletion.

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kristus said:

Zap them with the wand so they stay still, then mosey up to them and place a couple (as in 2) of flechettes at their feet. Then watch them die.


Still annoying when there are fifty or more centaurs and you don't have 100 or more flechettes...

The only times I like centaurs (or their even more annoying variants, the slaughtaurs) is when they are near a bottomless precipice and you have discs of repulsion. Yum. Setups like this are as delicious as a bunch of zombies grouped at the end of a domino barrel chain. :D

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I actually enjoy fighting revenants especially when I "collect" enough of their homing rockets to form a protective barrier around myself to kill enemies that come to close. Like Demons.


I also use them to start in-fights with the same method.


But yeah, you can kill them with really anything stronger than an SSG.

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Revenants are fun. I think I like them mostly because of how silly they are in total, but they often provide a fair challenge while not being completely insane.

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40oz said:

What? We're talking at least 3-5 seconds though. Your reaction time is that slow?

The worst thing is when one starts perforating you when you're in the middle of a forced weapon change.

Gez said:

The only time when I really despise chaingunners is when the Plutonia trick of putting them on a tower with a hidden arch-vile constantly resurrecting them is used.

Haha I gotta confess something. About ten years ago, way before I'd played plutonia or even got hold of a copy of it, I was playing some wad in which an archvile at the end of the level invariably resurrects a spectre, killed much earlier on the other side of a thin wall. This required a big detour as the spectre was a long way away "as the player walks". It annoyed me enough that I decided it was a bug, and the easiest fix was to put in a check for line-of-sight to the corpse.

diff --git a/src/p_enemy.c b/src/p_enemy.c
index 2b588bb..97e5563 100644
--- a/src/p_enemy.c
+++ b/src/p_enemy.c
@@ -1576,6 +1576,10 @@ boolean PIT_VileCheck(mobj_t *thing)
   if (D_abs(thing->x-viletryx) > maxdist || D_abs(thing->y-viletryy) > maxdist)
     return true;                // not actually touching
 
+  if (compatibility_level >= rboom_compatibility
+      && !P_CheckSight(thing, vileobj))
+    return true; // don't resurrect monsters you can't see!
+
 // Check to see if the radius and height are zero. If they are      // phares
 // then this is a crushed monster that has been turned into a       //   |
 // gib. One of the options may be to ignore this guy.               //   V
Of course it completely breaks the vile-behind-pillar trick, but I assure the reader I had no idea such a thing existed at the time. Pretty lame I know, but I like to kid myself it's no more lame than, say, fixing the ghosts bug or some such like that.

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Gez said:

Still annoying when there are fifty or more centaurs and you don't have 100 or more flechettes...

Whith that many at once, the Sapphire wand would likely be the best weapon to use against them. Since it tears through the entire field, it would do so much damage. And unless you're fighting them in a 64 unit wide corridor, you would always have a lot of centaurs that you didn't hit so you would be able to put out ripping streams of constant damage.

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As for me, I do really agree that revenants is much annoying than the archvile. I am not very good at dealing with homing missiles, when there's hordes of revenants, I will be quite scared.

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40oz said:

Really? I can't get myself to appreciate that trick at all, especially since I don't know how to effectively kill the archvile inside or get the chainguns yet, so its a constant health AND ammo depletion.

To kill the archvile you can:
a)use a crusher (see plutonia map15)
b)make a door open so they come out(see epic map32)
To make the player get to the ammo you can make some sort of lift to the chaingun area.
You can ask a mapper for more info.

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Revenants are a bit a like the rogue of the bunch, when it comes to Doom monsters. If the other monsters could be ranked according to behavior and threat level posed, they would range from "lame-ass punks" (for lowly zombiemen) to "Ultimate machine of death" (for the Cyberdemon).

In between there would be "soldiers", "damage soakers", "tanks", "enforcers", "fatsos", "goddamn bats" etc.

And then there would be enemies like the Imp and the Revenant, the outstanding bastards of the bunch. Lost souls pretty much cover the Goddamned Bats role in Doom, so they needs no further explanation. But the Imp and Revenant are special. Oh yeah.

For their tier, they both have fiendishly adequate health level: low enough to be disposed quickly with well-placed shots or powerful weapons, but high enough to survive even slightly misplaced shots (the imp's potential resistance even to a full 7-pellet SG blast, for instance, or the Revenant's thinness that makes him easy to miss even with the SSG).

Then they are surprisingly damaging among peer monsters: imps can tear through zombies in melee, and Revenants can seriously damage even much more powerful monsters because of their cheap, highly damaging projectyle.

If a Baron can be seen as a heavily muscled bouncer that comes at you with all he's got and has nothing to hide, the Imp and the Revenant are more like a skinny motherfucker morrocan bastard street fighter that will backstab you as soon as he gets the chance, and is also surprisingly resilient to a beating and his blows are not to be taken lightly (after all, even a lowly imp is able to do 1/3rd of the damage of a Baron or Knight in melee, and there are FAR MORE Imps than Barons).

Now, take the imp. Make it 5 times tougher in HP. 4 times more damaging in projectyle. Give it a homing attack. Throw it in maps in imp-sized hordes. Yup, not a pretty thought now, is it? If a single imp was like a favela cutthroat rogue, a Revenant is like a bad mothafuckah gangbanger favela cutthroat rogue that has just been released from prison so that the inmate killings would stop. And there's are whole gang of them, too.

Such a gang will double-cross you, swarm you, knife you, glass you, break bottles on your head and ice you mercilessly. The Revenant is fucking hardcore, never to be taken lightly. If being ambushed by a lone imp in melee can strip you of a good 50-60% health before you put an end to it, the same mistake with a revenant (prefeably with a homing missile in your back) can fuck you up just as badly as a vicious, tainted backstabbing by said rogues/bad favela mothafuckahs.

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Maes said:

If a single imp was like a favela cutthroat rogue, a Revenant is like a bad mothafuckah gangbanger favela cutthroat rogue that has just been released from prison so that the inmate killings would stop. And there's are whole gang of them, too.

Such a gang will double-cross you, swarm you, knife you, glass you, break bottles on your head and ice you mercilessly. The Revenant is fucking hardcore, never to be taken lightly.

Sounds like you've got too many mutha 'uckers 'uckin' with your shi-. Too many to count, mutha 'uckers!

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DeathevokatioN said:

I love revenants. When you get better at DooM they become very fun and challenging enemies. There's no such thing as revenant abuse. ;)


Uhm.. I think there IS such thing as revenant abuse (scythe 2). If you don't agree with that.. then PLEASE tell me that you AT LEAST do not condone chaingunner abuse :)

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Reevys said:

I mean the kind where more than one of them pop out on either side of you and their bullets stop you from moving, or if you can move, cover just isn't close enough.


That can be irritating, but I've yet to run into a chaingunner trap like you describe that was so cheap as to be almost impossible without cheating.

I usually try to go for the chaingun/plasma gun if there's no cover - that usually buys you a moment of stun-lock time, especially if you sweep a group of chaingunners with it. The super shotgun is almost guaranteed to kill or at least severely wound a good portion of chaingunners that are packed together, theoretically buying you a moment for the super shotgun reload while they recover.

If they're on more than one side, you can usually count on some of them hitting each other in a crossfire and diverting attention from you while you deal with the others.

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It's funny because Revenants are really easy to kill with only 300 health, two SSG blasts seals their coffins. But they have nasty tendency to rape you when you least expect it, whether close or long range. And yes mappers really tend to use them in ways it makes you wish the enemy never existed, but it's an integral part of Doom II's charm in that all the new monsters were designed to be annoying.

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I just like how Revenants are a really dynamic enemy. Stops the player from sidestrafing the whole game and makes you use your environment. I think their health is perfect, makes them a quick, fun fight unlike barons :\.

The only thing I hate about them is their weird sprite and how their hitbox is a lot shorter than it appears. Their hitbox is also pretty thin and they already take a while to kill with the chaingun (if you aren't tapping it) since most shots miss.

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Again keeping to the "bad mothafuckah" analogy, a Baron is, relatively, a "noble" monster. It prefers to attack you with its relatively slow pace from a distance, tank towards you, and unleash his full fury when at melee, almost like it considered its fireball attack a secondary, not so honorable attribute.

And its strength and size leave you no doubts about who it is: it's a tough fighter, it's a tank, and it's coming FOR YOU. Straight ahead. Face to face. Plus, usually Barons are used as mid-boss enforcer types, seldom used in corner ambushes (unless the mapper is a bastard). All in all, you can expect a honest confrontation with this monster, and the numbers it's used are usually adequate for the threat level it poses.

The revenant on the other hand is an unpredictable, vicious bastard, much like a switchblade slingin' mothafuckah. He's NOT weak enough to dispatch easily of with one-two hits, and his attack is actually more punishing than the Baron.

Vicious, malevolent, no-holding-back firepower with an attitude, in a deceiving "mid-low tier monster" package, that encourages using it in packs.

The health of a cacodemon with nearly the danger and the sting of a Cyberdemon and the speed of a Pinky (if you consider how much damage you take from a near-miss cyberdemon rocket, you'll see that a curving fireball doing 80 HP of damage isn't much better).

I actually consider a lone, free roaming Revenant much more of a threat than a lone Baron or Knight.

With the Revenant you can't turn your back at them one moment, let alone when more than one is around. It also moves about much faster than most monsters of its tier (weird how none mentioned this) so they are much more of a stalker, and they don't suffer from the pinkies' erratic movement: they run right after you, and they are also damn good at ambushes and punishing you for missing one CG or chainsaw hit.

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Once you learn the trick to avoid the homing missiles, you should be able to deal with revenants. It makes gameplay more interesting because, as others have said, you have projectiles that require more than mere side-stepping.

Not to say that I haven't cursed the bastards often enough when I got stuck at something with a missile on my tail, though :P but it's what makes them interesting.
Also, ever noticed that they don't fire in close quarters? You can drag Revenants around when you keep them close enough. This way, you can very well punch a whole horde of them to death.
And if there's plenty of them and plenty of room, you can actually 'collect' their missiles and use them to your own advantage!

<3 Revenants :)

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Yeah, pretty sure they use their punch as a primary attack in close quarters and will charge at you without firing... that is until it's pain state is activated.. so make it a damaging point blank super shotty hit and get the heck out of there before it gives you a missile down your throat.

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Maes said:

Again keeping to the "bad mothafuckah" analogy, a Baron is, relatively, a "noble" monster. It prefers to attack you with its relatively slow pace from a distance, tank towards you, and unleash his full fury when at melee, almost like it considered its fireball attack a secondary, not so honorable attribute.

And its strength and size leave you no doubts about who it is: it's a tough fighter, it's a tank, and it's coming FOR YOU. Straight ahead. Face to face. Plus, usually Barons are used as mid-boss enforcer types, seldom used in corner ambushes (unless the mapper is a bastard). All in all, you can expect a honest confrontation with this monster, and the numbers it's used are usually adequate for the threat level it poses.

The revenant on the other hand is an unpredictable, vicious bastard, much like a switchblade slingin' mothafuckah. He's NOT weak enough to dispatch easily of with one-two hits, and his attack is actually more punishing than the Baron.

Vicious, malevolent, no-holding-back firepower with an attitude, in a deceiving "mid-low tier monster" package, that encourages using it in packs.

The health of a cacodemon with nearly the danger and the sting of a Cyberdemon and the speed of a Pinky (if you consider how much damage you take from a near-miss cyberdemon rocket, you'll see that a curving fireball doing 80 HP of damage isn't much better).

I actually consider a lone, free roaming Revenant much more of a threat than a lone Baron or Knight.

With the Revenant you can't turn your back at them one moment, let alone when more than one is around. It also moves about much faster than most monsters of its tier (weird how none mentioned this) so they are much more of a stalker, and they don't suffer from the pinkies' erratic movement: they run right after you, and they are also damn good at ambushes and punishing you for missing one CG or chainsaw hit.


It may be that I just started watching The Wire on DVD but the Revenant is basically the equivalent of Omar in the world of Doom. :)

I agree though - the Revenant is probably the most dangerous enemy in Doom after the Cyberdemon. I can deal with Arch-Viles since their attack is easily neutralized by the line-of-sight limitation, but I've been smacked upside the head far too many times by a homing Revenant fireball for me to not go "Fuck me" when I realize I have no cover available.

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