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40oz

Chainsaw

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I've been playing A LOT of doom lately and something I noticed was pretty dominant in Doom 2 that has apparently carried over to many other megawads, especially ones with high monster count, is the lack of chainsaw.

To me, Doom 2's most striking feature is it's requirement to learn the maps to fend off the monsters. First plays are often very difficult, but pistol starting them a second time, you carry over knowledge of the monster placement, the secrets, where ammo and weapons are stored, and upcoming traps. (sometimes playing on lower skill levels is beneficial for that reason) To make up for the generally little ammo most maps provide, is the occasional berserk pack thats available in almost all of the second half of the game. This is awesome because it's an unlimited supply of firepower and with some daring moves you bring down large armies of imps and pinky demons, cacodemons, revenants, you name it.

The thing that bothers me, is that the chainsaw also serves the same purpose, only in that its not quite as fast, and requires some more daring moves to use without getting hurt. I've been playing a lot of Alien Vendetta and Hell Revealed 2 and noticed that you often very rarely get the chainsaw, and it seems like it is just forgotten with respect to berserk packs instead. Do people generally hate the chainsaw? I always thought that the IDCHOPPERS cheat can save any map that doesn't provide enough ammo from being unenjoyable.

A lot of maps I've been playing these days, especially classic wads, don't give you chainsaws. Especially maps that insist on being very difficult by providing every single weapon in the game in the starting room EXCEPT the chainsaw. ARGH!

The only problem I have with the chainsaw is that it interrupts the sequence of switching to fists when you DO have berserk. Beyond that, I think the chainsaw is a super awesome low-priority but unlimited ammo weapon and doesn't get as much respect as it deserves.

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I love the chainsaw, my new favorite use for it is mashing up infantry, and also revenants are fun to take down with it.

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The Chainsaw is a very underrated weapon. It's able to take out quite a few types of enemies. Zombies, Imps, Pinkies, Cacos, and PE's are all very easy to kill with a Chainsaw. And I wouldn't be surprised that the Revenant would be relatively easy to kill with one. Maybe even Mancubus, but I haven't risked that one yet.

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The chainsaw's use is rather limited:
-revenants will occasionally shoot
-mancs will occasionally shoot
-shotgun zombies will usually shoot you before you get in range
-lower dps that the fist
-with the fist you can take on hellknights and barons,always a no go for the chainsaw
-the fist is more funny (gibbing an imp and watching it fall in a hole,etc.)
-demons will occasionally hit you
-you can easily kill an archvile with the fist in some situations,not with the chainsaw
Seriously the only situation I prefer it to the fist is if I am fighting an arachnotron

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Chainsaw is ok, but nothing special IMO. The fact that it's a low power high speed weapon makes less attractive against knights and barons, and against cacos in ports that haven't fixed the hitbox glitch. What I like the least about it is that some mappers consider it a gimmick weapon against demons, as in placing the chainsaw somewhere where picking it unleashes a bunch of demons or spectres. It's such a tired old concept that still keeps appearing every now and then that...meh.

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Well the chainsaw wouldn't exactly help you in my maps ... but for others, they probably forget about using a melee weapon when just about everything else is ranged.

BTW, I wouldn't chainsaw a manc or arachno in vanilla/port that doesn't fix the hitbox glitch. Ever. Nor punch them.

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The chainsaw is my preferred weapon for dealing with demons, cacodemons and pain elementals. It is a good way to conserve ammo, so I can shoot at walls more often. :P

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No way.

Chainsaw rips up hell knights and hell barons pretty good. They have two frames of animation before they tear off your face so you have a pretty good warning. I'd only reccomend it in areas where you have a lot of room to dance around in and your movement can't be interrupted by pinkies and shit.

I rarely use the chainsaw strictly for killing monsters, but for saving some extra shots on monsters that are already worn out. If maps are ammo tight, I might use an SSG blast on a revenant, quick press 1 and finish it off before it can reach around and KO me, then those shotgun shells can be better used elsewhere yaknow?

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Now there's a tricky beast to tackle.

The chainsaw is a weapon that I imagine most rookie Doomers might prefer over the berserk fist because of their inability to weave in and out of combat, taking smack-shots at the enemy lines. Once this style of play has been perfected, though, the chainsaw's use is funnelled down to pretty much the list that PRIMEVAL laid out.

However, what needs to be considered is the versatility of the chainsaw as an early to mid-game weapon. Jodders is right in saying that it (along too with the berserk powerup) is often reduced to being one of the longer running gimmicks of Doom mapping when used as Demon bait, and perhaps we should consider using it more often in light of its more worthwhile attributes. Hell, I can think of a number of wads in which the chainsaw probably would have been a better or more viable option than berserk. It forces the player into close, mostly one on one encounters with a variety of monster types, and if there's one thing I enjoy doing, it's trying to segregate a monster horde - either through infighting or manoeuvring - so that I can engage one on one with a particular monster with the Chainsaw. Safely and messily.

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killer2 said:

-with the fist you can take on hellknights and barons,always a no go for the chainsaw

Seriously the only situation I prefer it to the fist is if I am fighting an arachnotron

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After being around and mapping for "Doom the way ID did" project, and been playin Doom1 a LOT, I've started to respect the chainsaw pretty much. Because in doom you really hadn't ammo at all situations, and the chainsaw is very good for chopping down pinkies especially, you get a cover from the pinky in pain that you are sawing, and he becomes pretty immobile and not able to attack, shooting a pinky with the shotgun can actually take longer than sawing it down. Then again, outside of zdoom, you have to be pretty close to what you are sawing, and it makes shit a tad bit harder. anyway... you get my point.

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st.alfonzo said:

The chainsaw is a weapon that I imagine most rookie Doomers might prefer over the berserk fist because of their inability to weave in and out of combat, taking smack-shots at the enemy lines.


This is an interesting point, especially since it's not very likely that the most rookie doomers are playing wads like Alien Vendetta or Plutonia 2, it's more likely that people who are first introduced to Doom were probably playing the shareware, which featured nothing but low health monsters with high pain chance.

While Berserk against these type monsters is more difficult than using a chainsaw is, You still have to use the same Berserk tactics with the chainsaw against bigger monsters like Hell Knights and Hell Baron's except by using the chainsaw you have to release the fire button to pull the chainsaw out of your enemy so that you can move, which is in turn, even more skillful than punching them is. The longer you leave your chainsaw cutting through your enemy, the higher stakes the gamble becomes. It relies a lot on fast reflexes and patience at the same time.

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Jodwin said:
What I like the least about it is that some mappers consider it a gimmick weapon against demons, as in placing the chainsaw somewhere where picking it unleashes a bunch of demons or spectres. It's such a tired old concept that still keeps appearing every now and then that...meh.

This.


--


AV and HR have no chainsaws, being indirectly inspired by Plutonia with 3 chainsaws in 32 maps.

Iikka Keranen put a chainsaw in his every map if I remember, and close to player starts. Another chainsaw WAD was Fragport.

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The only problem I have with the chainsaw is that it interrupts the sequence of switching to fists when you DO have berserk.


Really the one and only reason that makes me not want to put chainsaws in my maps. When I pick up a chainsaw in a megawad (at times when I play several maps in a row), I always feel like I'm getting screwed.

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When I want to save ammo, I will volontarily use it but I wouldn't go after anything bigger than only one single cacodemon with a chainsaw. Smaller enemies have a lesser chance of hurting you when being chainsaw'd too. Demons are perfect for melee weapons in general no matter what situation. When there's an army of demons, I can just find a corner to camp in and chainsaw away...

I guess it really depends on my environment and what I'm up against. I try to pick the best weapon for the job.

The only thing regarding weapons that annoyed me a little me it was having to switch between Normal Shotgun and Super shotgun all the time. It's much more ammo efficient if I use the normal Shotgun to kill Zombies and Imps. I prefer to do it that way.

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My biggest issue with the chainsaw is that it's the only weapon that removes the best thing Doom Guy's got going for him, his dodging ability. It locks you into place and forces you to either stand there for ages or use it in quick bursts like you would a berserk fist, only with janky movement and doing considerably less damage.

After replaying Episode 1 in my "pistol start challenge" I was starting to feel like I was getting a new found respect for it because it was actually useful, but that's only because the Episode 1 monsters are designed around it while the rest aren't.

It's great as a way to save ammo on "fodder" enemies (demons, imps, humans) but it really sucks in almost all other situations. I think that's an OK tradeoff though, given that it's got infinite ammo, but it does make its use extremely niche. Most maps made for the experienced Doomer require gameplay that's a bit more difficult than Episode 1 and with it monsters that are "chainsaw immune", so it's just not useful in most situations.

I feel like this is one of the few situations where custom monsters could really shine, making more fodder enemies with a bit more tactical flair than the Doom defaults that the chainsaw would work well against. The whole "having to stand still" aspect can work well, but not if you've got to sit there for a minute while the monster you're chainsawing is chewing your face off, because then fighting with it becomes a chore. Its damage output is just too low to be worth entering such a risky position against any medium or higher tier monster, I'd far rather just run past them.

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Melon said:

After replaying Episode 1 in my "pistol start challenge" I was starting to feel like I was getting a new found respect for it because it was actually useful, but that's only because the Episode 1 monsters are designed around it while the rest aren't.


Cacos and lost souls are easy to dispatch with the chainsaw. Okay, sometimes cacos will manage to bite you, but it's still rather rare.

In Doom II, the mancubus are also good candidates for chainsawing. Their pain chance could bear to be higher, sure, but they give you ample warning when they overcome the pain and start attacking.

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Chainsaws! Doom has those, I think.


I find them useful on maps with low monstercount, low ammo playstyles, or E1-style romps with weaker enemies. Trying to saw anything above a Cacodemon is usually asking for trouble if you're a Xaser.

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I pretty much always include a chainsaw in my maps, sometimes in a secret.

While playing, I use it all the time. Not just to save ammo but because it's fun. Even without the hitbox fix cacodemons can be taken down with some confidence.

It usually loses me health, but I just love charging at imps with the old saw runnin

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40oz said:
I might use an SSG blast on a revenant, quick press 1 and finish it off before it can reach around and KO me, then those shotgun shells can be better used elsewhere yaknow?


What WAD are you playing where you're getting reach-arounds from Revenants? :p

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i was kinda speaking metaphorically in which the revenant harnesses the strength to reach over the blade of my chainsaw and punch me while I'm grinding up its entrails.

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40oz said:

i was kinda speaking metaphorically in which the revenant harnesses the strength to reach over the blade of my chainsaw and punch me while I'm grinding up its entrails.


Sure you were. :)

It's just after reading the speculation in the imp thread about whether imp furries exist, I begin to view Doom in a rather...Freudian light that I didn't see it in before.

The revenant "fisting" opponents, the obvious phallic implications of your gun protruding from the bottom of the screen and frequently "ejaculating" bursts of bullets, the orifice-resembling "eye" switches, etc.

I guess the media was right about Doom all along.

I've gotta go burn my copies of Doom now before the urge to act out my depraved fantasies spills over into the real world and I start running around and humping walls while grunting loudly.

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I find myself using the chainsaw often in combat against pinkies and cacodemons, though not really much else. (I'll use it with pain elementals sometimes but as soon as even one lost soul has entered the picture I already have too much coming from behind to make it work.) I agree that they're a rather underused weapon, although also that they're pretty limited in their range of uses in the first place. They're fun to use and are a quick if immobilizing way to get rid of certain monsters.

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The chainsaw is a cool weapon and indeed comes in handy when doing pistol starts, but the chainsaw also looks good as a prop in a map - thoughtfully placed next to some severed limbs and piles blood.

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killer2 said:

-lower dps that the fist

Berserk fist, maybe. If I'm remembering the wiki right (and assuming the wiki has the right data), don't they do the same damage variables?

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I don't like the chainsaw, its a short range version of the chaingun and I find its constant buzzing noise to be quite annoying, especially if the music for a map is quite quiet. If a map gives you so little ammo that you have to use the chainsaw then I won't play it. Also when you get a beserk the chainsaw becomes obsolete, a beserk has the power to take down barons/hell knights and even arch viles at a push, whereas the chainsaw can't handle these without the game becoming very tedious, sure its good against demons, but an SSG blast is even better and for flying enemies its pretty useless. I think that it was probably a good weapon in DooM, but when they released DooM 2 then it couldn't handle the new monsters and became a bit of a bore IMO.

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I'd have to agree with just about all of the above. When I first played Doom, the chainsaw was the greatest thing ever. Infinite ammo and just right for those pesky ammo-gobbling demons, spectres, cacos and lost souls. But as time passed, the chainsaw became more of a gimmick that really isn't even worth picking up.

The only use it has in deathmatch is the very occasional melee-only maps, but I suppose it has a bit of use left for in multiplayer when there's just no ammo left in a map and a few more hordes of monsters.

This thread has some nice timing. I'm just about ready to modify the fist and chainsaw for that weapon mod I'm working on. From the sounds of things, the chainsaw is not at all popular. Looks like I'm going to get rid of it and free up a few frames for the fist (along with two new attack frames).

Now I just have to decide if I want to do a combo attack (knife, bayonet, butt-stock melee) or one big Chuck Norris Round-House Kick of Doom(CNRKOD). ...I'm going to use the plasma rifle's frames to make the chainsaw into a hadoken attack for lulz.

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Xeros612 said:

Berserk fist, maybe. If I'm remembering the wiki right (and assuming the wiki has the right data), don't they do the same damage variables?

Of course I'm refering to berserk fist!The normal fist is worse than the chainsaw in any way,shape or form.

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