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Violator

First WAD

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I've started making my first WAD ever and wouldn't mind some feedback as to what you think of the pics I post, I know there is a few allignment issues, but this is very early work.

http://s989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/Siegpyo/?action=view¤t=3.png

http://s989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/Siegpyo/?action=view¤t=1.png

http://s989.photobucket.com/albums/af17/Siegpyo/?action=view¤t=4.png

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For your first attempt, that's looking mighty fine :)

First thing - you should have posted this in WADS and Mods. (This is a WAD, after all.)

As for your map, I can only think of two small things that might need changing.

In the two shots which show the hanging bodies, I might add some supports connected to the blocks they're hanging from, so they're no longer hanging in the air. However, if you like 'floating' blocks like that, you might want to add in some surrounding detail, say, some other floating blocks and so on so it looks like they 'belong' there, if that makes sense.

Something else you might want to look at, is the flesh texture you've used in the third shot on the upper edge of that strange structure in the center of the shot, as well as above the door to its left, and down the corridor. It doesn't appear to be tiling very well, so going with a texture like (for example) SKSNAKE2 might look neater.

Still, though, I'll say it again - for a first attempt at mapping in Doom, you seem certainly seem to have a firm grasp of what makes a nice looking map :)

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Thanks a lot for your feedback, sorry haha only saw the Wads and mods page now.

Ill keep in mind what you said about the blocks and the texture of that structure and play around a bit.

Thanks a lot!

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Insane_Gazebo said:

In the two shots which show the hanging bodies, I might add some supports connected to the blocks they're hanging from, so they're no longer hanging in the air. However, if you like 'floating' blocks like that, you might want to add in some surrounding detail, say, some other floating blocks and so on so it looks like they 'belong' there, if that makes sense.

I like the latter suggestion a lot more than the first one. Hell doesn't follow the laws of physics except when it wants ;)

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Quasar said:

I like the latter suggestion a lot more than the first one. Hell doesn't follow the laws of physics except when it wants ;)


Maybe that's why the Mancubus' don't seem too bothered they appear to weigh as much as a small moon? Maybe, thanks to 'hellphysics', it's if as if they are on the moon and weigh sweet bugger all?

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It's how I explain the cyberdemon's infinite supply of ammo.

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Insane_Gazebo said:

Maybe that's why the Mancubus' don't seem too bothered they appear to weigh as much as a small moon? Maybe, thanks to 'hellphysics', it's if as if they are on the moon and weigh sweet bugger all?


Well he moves about at just the pace I'd expect a grossly overweight human to shamble about, just without getting tired. Also, the Manc has developed elephant/rhino like feet so it can actually physically withstand its own weight. OTOH it's no ballerina.

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Thanks man, when I first started making it I wanted to base it on fun gameplay, and cool combat situtations and realised it didn't have to look bland and boring at the same time

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Violator said:

Thanks man, when I first started making it I wanted to base it on fun gameplay, and cool combat situtations and realised it didn't have to look bland and boring at the same time


You can honestly put in as much detail as you want as long as it doesn't snag the player or monsters in spots you don't want it to. (But confining the player can also work too.)

Unlike other modern engines it's pretty damn hard to actually slow down the frame rate to the point where it simply isn't playable anymore, whether it be because you've put in alot of detail or hordes of monsters. Not to say it's impossible, I've certainly done it. (Unless of course you just keep insterting monsters until your cpu gives out, but that's just silly.)

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Yea I agree, I hate details that get in the way, also I think there is such thing as over detailing, simplicity yet effective detailing is what made the original Dooms the best game ever released

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Violator said:

Yea I agree, I hate details that get in the way, also I think there is such thing as over detailing, simplicity yet effective detailing is what made the original Dooms the best game ever released


There's no such thing as over-detailing in my experience, only detail that creates poor contrast and is boring to look at. Sure, Doom looked great back in the day, but I reckon it's entirely possible to create something that looks nicer than the original maps. We not only have better machines than they did back then, but better tools as well.

I seriously can't wait until Kyka finishes his map set that he's been working on - it has some of the finest detail I've seen in a large set of maps, but they also happen to look great, and are also a crap load of fun to play as well. And to top it off, they're extremely cramped in a lot of places. I think a lot of mappers here feel that confined/detailed maps generally aren't that great and I feel his maps might change this perspective, at least for some people. :) (The rest I think might rage, they're bloody tough maps in spots.)

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Think it would be more difficult to make cramped maps look good than open maps seeing as you are a lot closer to everything and probably would pay more attention to smaller details.

Cramped maps are awesome but have to be done properly, I have a few ideas for a map after I have completed this one.

Yea *******ely better tools are available now days, when they mapped the original doom wasn't it all in code?

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Insane_Gazebo said:

There's no such thing as over-detailing in my experience, only detail that creates poor contrast and is boring to look at.

Well, that and detail that looks ugly or juts out in a way that harms player movement. But yeah. :P

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esselfortium said:

Well, that and detail that looks ugly or juts out in a way that harms player movement. But yeah. :P


As I said in my other post, that can be another problem too :) However, restricting player movement can also lead to some interesting fights as well. I remember a few of those in HR2, I think?

Of course, that's only single player maps. It's a completely different game desinging maps for deathmatch and so on.

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Violator said:


I don't think anyone's pointed this out yet... in this shot you're using the side of a switch texture for all the gross dead guys. There's the same exact texture that doesn't have the edge of the skull switch which you probably want to be using instead. I dunno the name of it as Doom2 ain't my thing, but I know it's there.

Looks good homie.

NT

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Looks a lot better than my first map :)


Tech-hell is a nice combo, but it seems to be overused. The shots from the first level remind me of Doom E3 a lot, except they look much better. I agree that the flesh textures should be switched to something else, though.

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killer2 said:

The texture that is on the edge of the raised lava looks...quite frankly,bad.


Yea, it does look pretty bad right now I admit, but gonna make some heavy changes to this map I haven't polished it at all

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Violator said:

Yea *******ely better tools are available now days, when they mapped the original doom wasn't it all in code?

They used a map editor called DoomEd, and a wad manager called Lumpy. I don't think they ever released their tools publicly, though. Tools using these names (Doomed, Lumpy, etc.) exist, but they are not the ones developed and used by id software.

I think a difference between DoomEd and all other map editors ever made for Doom is that the original used a two-step process, the editor having its own format for map data (presumably without nodes, blockmaps, etc.) and then using a compiler to turn it into the map format used by the game. This is why they have changed the map format several times during development; the editor's own format never changed so they could just update the compiler along with the game, without needing to recreate all levels from scratch each time they tweaked the map format.

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Gez said:

the editor having its own format for map data (presumably without nodes, blockmaps, etc.


Not even sectors! Their properies were also defined on the sidedefs - which explains so many errors in the IWAD maps, for example E3M8.

I have no idea how such an editor could even work...

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the original maps took genius work to make, I personally prefer the first dooms maps for nostalgic reasons as I played it when it first came out and I was three, Doom 2 has more of an evil, strange feel behind it and we can thank Peterson for that

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