carmack .plan update (gf4 issue)

[Dark-tenshi]

ATI had been patiently pestering me about support for a few months, so last month I finally took another stab at it. The standard OpenGL path worked flawlessly, so I set about taking advantage of all the 8500 specific features. As expected, I did run into more driver bugs, but ATI got me fixes rapidly, and we soon had everything working properly. It is interesting to contrast the Nvidia and ATI functionality..

Do not buy a GeForce4-MX for Doom.

Nvidia has really made a mess of the naming conventions here. I always thought it was bad enough that GF2 was just a speed bumped GF1, while GF3 had significant architectural improvements over GF2. I expected GF4 to be the speed bumped GF3, but calling the NV17 GF4-MX really sucks.

GF4-MX will still run Doom properly, but it will be using the NV10 codepath with only two texture units and no vertex shaders. A GF3 or 8500 will be much better performers. The GF4-MX may still be the card of choice for many people depending on pricing, especially considering that many games won't use four textures and vertex programs, but damn, I wish they had named it something else.

As usual, there will be better cards available from both Nvidia and ATI by the time we ship the game.

here is the full .plan

[Fredrik]

Interesting...

[Amanichen]

Yup, quite interesting..

I'm hoping that the 8500 and GF3 and GF4 will be the baseline cards for Doom 3 to run on, not a frickin TNT ultra (you people know who you are, keeping the gaming market behind the technology by holding onto your voodoo 3's and TNT ultras, yeah--I see u smilin =).

That means the graphics in the game should be of a high standard with all the details on low, and a super high standard with all the goodies turned on.

Although by the time Doom 3 comes out the 8500 and GF3 and GF4 will all be chicken feed, or one of the following equivalently shitty things:

-elephant snot that's been baked in the sun, then rotting in a rain forest for two years where there's all sorts of yet undiscovered bacteria feeding off of it

-any fluid/substance coming from ralphis

-any thing at all to do with ralphis

-STDs from 75% of the girls on campus

-any thing that comes in contact with me, cuz ya know I'm just full of shit =)

-the shit accumulated after 1000 cows just decided to eat a million tons of chili and have diarrhea in the same place

-that fish market smell x 1 million + the smell of burnt and rotting flesh + the smell of the shits from 1 millon T-Rex dinosaurs that has been blown into shit vapor by a bomb inside the pile of shit

-having your head blown off

-the contents of the stomach of a shark that ate a seal that ate a bird that ate 3,000 dung beetles that ate some elephant's shit

-finding out your g/f saying she is too busy to do anything wiht you, means that she's really found someone else, (but it's all good because you were cheating on her the entire time =)

-mixing alcohol, motor oil, paint, pH buffer, acetominophen, diesel fuel, rotten vetetables (fuck those are nasty!), and letting it simmer in a huge kettle for a while and then dumping it into your friend's car.

-getting a rabbit stuck up your ass (or if you're Richard Gere, a gerbil) and having it chew it's way through your intestines into your stomach and out your chest. Kinda like in Aliens, except the people weren't trying to get happy by probing themselves with the aliens.

[Zoost]

"As usual, there will be better cards available from both Nvidia and ATI by the time we ship the game."

Mhh..That means at 6 months till shipping time, probably 12 months.

[Lord FlatHead]

And back to the real world.

Do not buy a GeForce4-MX for Doom [...] I expected GF4 to be the speed bumped GF3, but calling the NV17 GF4-MX really sucks.

Bad, naughty Nvidia !

Without bump mapping everything looks horrible.

So much for 'high standard graphics with all details on low', eh amanichen ? But, like Carmack says, everyone should just relax. It could well be another year before Doom comes out, and by then the next generation of Nvidia & ATI tech will be out. And we've all been saving our pennies since June 1st 2000, right ?

[Zaldron]

Yeah it's not like Doom will be bleeding-edge regarding technology. It's just a leap forward, just like when id scrapped software rendering.

[Dima]

Zaldron - when do you think that "bleeding-edge technology" step occur?

[Lord FlatHead]

I'd guess radiosity and truly unique texturing would be two big things to get into the graphics engines at some point. And then one day (probably earlier than we all think), the big step to VR headsets etc. would have to be made for the most realistic game experience possible.

[Lord FlatHead]

http://www6.tomshardware.com/graphic/02q1/020206/geforce4-13.html

These 3DMark 2001 scores seem to confirm that the GF4MX is, indeed, not worth that name. The GF4MX 460 is about the same speed as a GF3 Ti200.