neat :D

I can back up phml in that it is possible to get all the imps dead if you let a shit load of PEs cluster around them. But it's much riskier and I'm sure there's still a substantial RNG component to it, so I like the "official" rules of most monsters dead = current valid max.

Share this post


Link to post

Well, I'd say let the sleeping dogs lie and consider the old entries as valid maxes, but I guess this sets the bar for possible future challengers. Killing the imps is apparently not trivial, so it makes sense for early explorers to miss such nuances. Now that we know better, we can require more kills from runners. Perhaps Andy should mention the missed imps count in the comment line?

Share this post


Link to post

The theory of Lost Souls being positioned by the imps allowing you hit them more reliably thanks to the infinite height attribute and extended hitbox makes sense, however remember the most important aspect of a demo is 'Speed' and I can't see how they would end up there on their own unless you willingly lured them which would waste crucial time, and the idea of having to do so due to the fault of the mapper would absolutely not enter the thought of the player in the first place.

Share this post


Link to post

Absolutely. Having to devise impromtu Rube Goldberg machines to resolve mapper screwups is not what I had in mind. If someone manages to use the lost soul tactic in an inventive way that's also faster than the current one, then that's going to become the standard at any rate, but a 10min slower demo that ALSO kills the last imp won't invalidate the current record. I mean, I think it was vile who managed to kill the archvile in Anti-Christ, but it didn't become the new record. More like an oddity that proved it possible.

Share this post


Link to post

I think killing the arch-vile with rocket blast damage is not odd at all. Anyway, I think that all demos and categories are good as long as the goals are clearly defined and the omitted kills mentioned.

i.imgur.com/PAuMRKm.jpg

Share this post


Link to post

Killer5 do you have demos for any other wads? (If not can I recommend some? :D) Your style is nice to watch. Your infight dancing and pattern dodging (e.g. wide+fast loops while facing in one direction in particular) is some of the most pleasant I've seen.

Yeah I bet no one gaf about stuff like that.

Share this post


Link to post

@rdwpa
Sorry no I only have demos of Sunder. Since I play a lot of games/work I haven't played other wads.

I really want to finish Sunder so I am going to be focusing on the rest of the wad for now. If you have some recommendations of good wads to play I am down to try them after Sunder.

Share this post


Link to post
Killer5 said:

@rdwpa
Sorry no I only have demos of Sunder. Since I play a lot of games/work I haven't played other wads.

I really want to finish Sunder so I am going to be focusing on the rest of the wad for now. If you have some recommendations of good wads to play I am down to try them after Sunder.


Stuff by Ribbiks and Danne and Ribbiks/Danne (Stardate 20x6, Combat Shock 2, Sunlust, Swim With The Whales, Italo Doom, etc.). It should be up your alley, and like Sunder, by and large there aren't too many demos for these wads, owing to the difficulty. (Sunlust maps01-06 and maybe a couple others in that set are more conventional short, hyper-optimized, lot-of-resets maxes, however.)

Share this post


Link to post

Actually I am thinking about taking a break from Sunder now that I have some time to play the game in order to run a specific map from Sunlust. Played Sunlust last weekend coop it was a lot of fun!

Share this post


Link to post
rdwpa said:

(Stardate 20x6, Combat Shock 2, Sunlust, Swim With The Whales, Italo Doom, etc.). It should be up your alley, and like Sunder, by and large there aren't too many demos for these wads, owing to the difficulty.


*Looks at DSDA*

No? All of these have maxes with the exception of Sunlust which is dry at the moment :P My personal deterrance for Sunlust is the duration of the maps and an unwilligness to practice and record for them as a result owing to lazyness.

Share this post


Link to post
Bloodite Krypto said:

*Looks at DSDA*

No? All of these have maxes with the exception of Sunlust which is dry at the moment :P My personal deterrance for Sunlust is the duration of the maps and an unwilligness to practice and record for them as a result owing to lazyness.


I look at DSDA all the time. That's what I based that comment off of.

C-S2 has a whopping 10 max demos, 1.42 per level.

SWTW has 4, or 1.33 per maxable level, two of them on the secret level.

Italo Doom just came out recently, but it's not like many more people are going to be maxing those anytime soon.

Stardate has 21, all from the same people.

Sunder 40, or 2.85 per level.

Sunlust has a lot of unmaxed levels, and not too many total if you exclude the easiest/shortest levels.

For such well-known mapsets that isn't a lot.

Share this post


Link to post

Oul... Ummm... I'm gonna tell you some secret... Just don't say it to anyone ok? Just between us ok?

Making demos (especially non-TAS) requires some time. And sometimes it takes week to make demo for Sunder Map11 (for example).
So if you want more demos you can join to this party and add your attempts, why not.

Share this post


Link to post

Ah so you based your analysis off how many demos each respective wad had in total, placing the quantity each had as a measurement of importance rather then whether each had a well established and impressive demo in each respective category with the most optimized time regardless of whether it was by the same player heh.

For myself, unless you are capable of getting an optimized time or can beat current records their isn't any purpose to speedrunning a wad for the sake of fun if you can't compete with your peers. Hence I was taken back by the remark that Stardate had demos all from the same players, each level has been recorded with optimal times so where does the question of a low amount stem from?

Also I don't understand your statistics:

rdwpa said:

SWTW has 4, or 1.33 per maxable level, two of them on the secret level.


Every map has been recorded so where is the 1.33 derived from?

Share this post


Link to post
Bloodite Krypto said:

Ah so you based your analysis off how many demos each respective wad had in total, placing the quantity each had as a measurement of importance rather then whether each had a well established and impressive demo in each respective category with the most optimized time regardless of whether it was by the same player heh.


I didn't say anything about "measures of importance"; you can't think I'm saying that these wads aren't "important", and that their importance is proportional to the number of max demos they have.

Furthermore, it was an offhand comment in a casual recommendations post. I'm not really in the mood for nitpicky arguments.

Share this post


Link to post

It's unfortunate but sometimes great wads don't get the demo love they deserve because one person sets the initial demo time at such high standards (which isn't necessarily a bad thing). I'd love to do some UV-Max for UAC Ultra but Kimo set the bar so ridiculously high on the 1st submission that nobody will attempt to beat them. Plus what's the point of posting a demo that isn't a new record? Maps like Sunder are very open with different strategies for time improvements but they are very time consuming to tackle.

Share this post


Link to post

Good work. Its nice to see you break records. Keep it up.

Share this post


Link to post

Cool to see newcomers tackle the slaughterwad beasts. Just a minor complaint: Yousuf, the abbreviation should be "su", not "sd". The latter tends to be associated with Speed of Doom.

Share this post


Link to post
SWDude said:

Good work. Its nice to see you break records. Keep it up.

thanks friend :) im trying map 05, 06 and 07 for now, they are very hard and tight.

Share this post


Link to post
dew said:

Cool to see newcomers tackle the slaughterwad beasts. Just a minor complaint: Yousuf, the abbreviation should be "su", not "sd". The latter tends to be associated with Speed of Doom.

oops sorry :( it won't happen next time, i assure.

Share this post


Link to post

MAP03 UV-Max in 10:13

Just one of the demos I have sitting here which I didn't post because I didn't like the final result.
Gave up on the sub-10 barrier. May I never see this map again.

su03-1013.zip

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now