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General Rainbow Bacon

slaughter map difficulty order

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I'm trying to get better at slaughter/hr-styled maps and was wondering what levels I should start with. I can beat most of the levels tagged "hard" in the HR wiki page, but none of the "very hard" ones so far (from pistol start anyway). I just beat map 19 in HR for the first time, which was really fun. Should I continue practicing in HR or go to other wads and then go back? Also, of the wads that have slaughter gameplay, could you guys list the ones you know in order of difficulty?

E: One last thing, in map 28, how the hell am I supposed to do that room with eight arch-viles??

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Here's some hard maps I've made over the years. Most have demos, and basically designed for the port that the demos were recorded in (most in prboom+):
http://www.speedyshare.com/files/25884025/gggHardWads.zip

search idgames (probably by whole textfile) for timeofdeath (time of maps etc, the current upload might be a dummy file.. if it seems weird I can link to the real one), armoredblood (new gothic etc) phml (not sure if on idgames), death destiny, insane gazebo (unfinished) probably others I'm forgetting.

for hr28 there's a bfg secret somewhere, probably get that first (watch a demo). Or maybe let the viles out and run around so rockets will hit them and they'll infight.

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Yeah, I've actually played many of their levels, never seen yours though. I can't really do much with most of them yet (AB's ToD's etc) they are still too hard for me. Which ones are a bit easier that I can start with?

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This is a list in a text file I have of hard maps OTHER people have suggested before. I havn't even played some probably. Plus this is an old list so new stuff isn't included. My guess for slightly easier maps to check first is alien vendetta:

Hr,
Hr2,
Hrb,
Scythe,
AV,
MM2,
Punishr,
Vrack series, some 10sector, Bldnight, d2200ep1, Demonizd, deleted scene 2, dminator, some of the dwsp maps, eaxt, ey601, md, nexus, nuts, oneweek, op_801, phtga, seej, t_dunn02, tantrum2.

1337.wad, oneweek.wad
Seej.wad


some of the 10sectoX maps
some of the AlienVendetta maps
some of the Ap_0XX maps
Chord series
Cyberdreams
Deleted
Dmonfear
many of the speedmapping maps
Gem01
Jagged Edge maps
some of the prwrseventh maps
Ruma
Scythe
Seej
all of Sam Woodman's swXXXXX maps - swblstcs being a favorite of mine
T2
T_dunn02
Tantrum
TVR
ZapXX maybe


edit: also try oblige and obhack level randomizers- set to any difficulty you want.

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If you want to get better at slaughter maps, then don't play slaughter maps. Download a multiplayer port and join random deathmatches. Fight the strongest opponents you can find. There's no better way to train accuracy, reflexes and movement skills.

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I would recommend to just play HR and HR2 til you beat it. That's how I got "good" at Doom. I can't start a megawad from map01 without finishing it... There are no short cuts, play, play, play and eventually you will win ;)

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If you want to get better at slaughter maps, then don't play slaughter maps. Download a multiplayer port and join random deathmatches. Fight the strongest opponents you can find. There's no better way to train accuracy, reflexes and movement skills.


Can't say I agree. Lots of parameters are more important in DM than accuracy, reflexes and movement - map knowledge, network latency, graphic settings, knowing the patterns your opponents fall in ; not to mention Doom2 DM relies heavily on SSG and PG, two weapons you hardly use in slaughter maps (it's mostly RL and BFG).

Regardless, the kind of movement skills and accuracy you're going to use in DM are very different than the ones you need in SP maps.

I'm not saying you can't progress through DM, but the best way to get better at slaughter maps is to play slaughter maps IMHO. Many of them have difficulty levels, and the ones that don't always have ITYTD. Personally, I was decent at MP years before I even knew how to kill a cybie in less than 5 BFG shots, and the only thing that started making me better at Doom was to do just the above.

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@vdgg: I beat through HR on medium, and made it to map 27 in AVr1 on UV. No nobody stole my account, I admit in that other thread I should have said "I beat through many of the levels", but not all. It's mostly the very hard levels I still can't quite do on UV. The only two maps in Newgothic I can do are 4 and 5.

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DoomHero85 said:

I'm trying to get better at slaughter/hr-styled maps

Keep on recording demos on these maps. You'll improve a lot.

Trying to get a sub-10 minute UV Max time on Go 2 It should be a good start :)

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Phml said:

Can't say I agree. Lots of parameters are more important in DM than accuracy, reflexes and movement - map knowledge, network latency, graphic settings, knowing the patterns your opponents fall in ; not to mention Doom2 DM relies heavily on SSG and PG, two weapons you hardly use in slaughter maps (it's mostly RL and BFG).

Regardless, the kind of movement skills and accuracy you're going to use in DM are very different than the ones you need in SP maps.

I'm not saying you can't progress through DM, but the best way to get better at slaughter maps is to play slaughter maps IMHO. Many of them have difficulty levels, and the ones that don't always have ITYTD. Personally, I was decent at MP years before I even knew how to kill a cybie in less than 5 BFG shots, and the only thing that started making me better at Doom was to do just the above.


I'm not saying that deathmatching gives you all the skills necessary to excel at slaughter maps - that's obviously not true. All the same, I know I wouldn't be half the Doomer I am today if I hadn't gone through a major Skulltag phase. Fighting human enemies demands (among other things, some of which are admittedly less relevant to single player) great accuracy, the ability to move smoothly, quickly and intuitively, and a fearlessness and complete lack of hesitation.

Once these skills are trained up it becomes much easier to pick up the knowledge needed for playing other flavours of Doom. For example, as soon as I read how to kill a cyberdemon in two BFG-hits I was able to do it perfectly.

It takes much longer to train up the basic skills when only fighting monsters, because monsters always forgive gaps in a player's abilities in ways that human players do not. Monsters never catch up to a running player. Monsters don't try to dodge. Monsters always give the player ample time to make his move.

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It takes much longer to train up the basic skills when only fighting monsters, because monsters always forgive gaps in a player's abilities in ways that human players do not.


At the same time, human players have so many exploitable shortcomings that don't apply to monsters. Most players always play an exact certain way, and are unable to improvise and react when confrontated with a strategy that doesn't fall right into their expectations. The same sentence can of course be applied to monsters, but the thing is monsters outnumber you thousands to one, have perfect precision (although they don't lead), will never lag, and only need to kill you once to win ; and my other point was that you can play PVP for years and not progress any in accuracy, reflexes, movement or aggressiveness (I'm an example of that).

Even if you do focus on training your accuracy/reflexes and specifically avoid getting inside your opponent's head, I just don't believe you can progress faster at slaughter maps through DM than by simply playing slaughter maps. The whole concept reeks of "thinking outside the box just because I can".

It's obvious we have two completely opposite personal experiences and can't ever agree on this, so I guess the conclusion is try and see what works for you.

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I guess I'm wondering which level(s) I should train on next. I've beaten all or nearly all of the levels gggmork listed on medium. I just want to get over the hump and be able to defeat some of these levels on hard.

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