A question for metal fans

[dew]

Sigvatr said:

Close this thread already.

anti-censorship hero backseat modding. your credibility just flatlined.

[j4rio]

Sigvatr said:

lol your a fag

what about his a fag?

[Sharessa]

Modern music has pretty terrible production values, no matter the genre. I've even heard some obscure industrial bands that were unlistenable because every channel had been turned to 11. A lot of modern producers have their heads up their ass, or more likely, are half-deaf from listening to music at maximum volume all the time.

As far as metal goes, Devin Townsend has some pretty damn good production on his music, so it's not a genre thing.

[Reisal]

Death, black, doom and thrash metal should avoid overpolishing their music atop the same for not touching auto-tune, which I find is a completely useless tool in the metal and hard rock universe...what happened to keeping the natural vocal tone change instead of forcing a certain one with that?

Also Sigvatr, watch your words before you end up getting a timeout. You are getting a wee bit too defensive over trivial things.

[Mr. Freeze]

Here's an example of what I consider good metal production:

Notice how the guitars, while layered multiple times, are still distinct and defined? Notice how the bass drum sounds like an actual bass drum? It might be hard to tell with the quality low, but Colin Richardson did a fucking awesome job.

[esselfortium]

From my perspective, in the hands of a skilled producer there's nothing that can be done with analog equipment that an all-digital system can't replicate. The warmth and characteristic tone that people tend to associate with analog recording is honestly not all that difficult to fake if you're aiming to do so, speaking personally as a producer. :P

[Mr. Freeze]

There's a difference between digital RECORDING and digital PRODUCTION. As someone who hates analog, I can honestly say that making a digital record sound good is not that hard at all. The problems start when you introduce digital techniques into the actual recording process.

Confused? I'll explain my definitions:

Quantizing bass drum kicks...digital RECORDING. You are using digital methods to *alter* a sound via drum triggers.

Recording bass drum kicks...digital PRODUCTION. You're just using digital methods to *capture* a sound via a microphone.

Outside of the mastering process, none of that should have a place in a studio dedicated to "raw" and "natural" sound. And even the mastering process can get fucked up due to overcompression, excessive EQing, etc.

[Maes]

Everybody here said:

Metal and autotune

As if crystal clear, perfectly tuned vocals mattered in this genre.

Let alone that most of the bands mentioned wouldn't survive the infamous "But is $BAND metal?" test.

[deathbringer]

"OMG I JUST HEARD X BAND USES EFFEX! I TOTALLY LOST ALL THE RESPECT I EVER HAD FOR THEM" is ludicrous behaviour that's best left to punks.

[Maes]

If that were the case, then any non purely acoustic metal band is just a bunch of punk wannabes.

YEAH BABY, HEADBANG HARD TO THE SOUND OF UNPLUGGED METAL RIFFS AND UNAMPLIFIED DEATH GRUNTS !!!!

[Xeros612]

esselfortium said:

From my perspective, in the hands of a skilled producer there's nothing that can be done with analog equipment that an all-digital system can't replicate. The warmth and characteristic tone that people tend to associate with analog recording is honestly not all that difficult to fake if you're aiming to do so, speaking personally as a producer. :P

That depends on how it's done. If guitars are plugged directly into a computer as opposed to into an amp with a mic in front of it, it's not going to have anywhere near the depth and richness of an analogue tone. It may be doable with a whole lot of editing, but then what's the point when you can just put a high quality mic in front of an amp for a lot cheaper and a lot less time? (Unless you want it to take longer to rake in the hourly wages. :P) Bass falls under the same parameters here.

Similar case goes to drums. If a band is using a digital set or triggers, those components aren't going to have the depth and richness of sound of a real kit even if you get really, really good samples, as then it'd still lose the "variable sound" a real drum is going to produce based on non-perfect striking of the drum heads and cymbals. I will say that triggers are under a lot less scrutiny from me personally as they're an actually useful digital tool, allowing for faster, more complex dual bass drum (what's the percussion equivalent term for "riff" again?) parts from those who may not be able to do so with normal pedals.

As for vocals, if a vocalist can't hit a note or perform a certain type of vocal, then DON'T WRITE THAT PART INTO A SONG OR GET A GUEST VOCALIST TO COVER IT. Don't make up for a lack of talent or ability by making a machine fake it for you. And auto-tune sounds too shitty for it to even be excused as just an effect.

And even if these can be properly done by skilled producers to sound like the depth and richness of analogue, I'd like to know why producers that use direct-digital, triggers, digital drums, etc. don't seem to even try to do so.

Oh, and just a quick aside to discredit any discrepancies that may arise, direct digital and whatnot aren't going to automatically cause the band to be hated in my eyes. (Otherwise, I wouldn't like the band Mercenary one bit.) It's more of a "GOD DAMNIT why did they have to do that? Now the production sounds like shit."

[ducon]

Maes said:

If that were the case, then any non purely acoustic metal band is just a bunch of punk wannabes.

YEAH BABY, HEADBANG HARD TO THE SOUND OF UNPLUGGED METAL RIFFS AND UNAMPLIFIED DEATH GRUNTS !!!!

And what about this?

[Maes]

ducon said:

And what about this?

I love you ducon. Thanks for showing me the light.

[cbronson]

Haha, sir you just made me laugh out loud. That's the best brutal-black-goat-fckin-death-metal video I've ever seen.

By the way, the first time I put my eyes on it I read "Impaled Northern Moronfest".

[Marnetmar]

I find this thread amusing.

[Reisal]

I know Impaled Northern Moonforest was made and meant to be a joke in the first place.

[Nomad]

Lüt said:

I don't know, I figured the "inauthenticity" claims usually referred to composition and performance rather than getting a good recording job. Stylistic copycatting will get people's inner artists riled up, but quality production is something that should be universal in any musical presentation. It's all about creating effective sound after all, and while you may want your music to be original, throwing away all the advances of recording technology to achieve such a goal would be misdirected at best, if not outright irrational.

That

[Shaikoten]

Maes said:

As if crystal clear, perfectly tuned vocals mattered in this genre.

Let alone that most of the bands mentioned wouldn't survive the infamous "But is $BAND metal?" test.

NAME ALL THE QUALITIES OF HEAVY METAL

[Maes]

Mr. Chris said:

I know Impaled Northern Moonforest was made and meant to be a joke in the first place.

At least they are less poz(ers) than Christian Black Metal ;-)