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Sigvatr

Music

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I think its funny how people will try to rationalize the thought process of musicians/listeners of a genre they do not appreciate or understand and assume that, since they have figured out what makes these people tick, that they can back up their completely irrational disdain for them with a logical argument.

It's actually pretty retarded, and conjures up imagery in my head of two tribes of hunter-gatherers who look and sound exactly the same coming at eachother with spears and then retreating into the jungle.

Everyone treats music very seriously. It's a very important part of many people's life. The only thing I still do not understand today, after my completely indistinguishable experience of music from anyone elses, is why people argue about it so much.

I don't think I've ever been involved in or read a single music argument where anyone within earshot of the argument has had their mind changed about anything. In fact, I'm pretty sure most people walk away from music arguments thinking about how awesome they are and how their mindset has been reinforced by this struggle.

Sure, I hate a lot of music and don't want to listen to it, but just because I do does not mean you need to get all defensive about it. Why do we like our taste in music? Why do we like anything? Can you explain why you like cheese cake but why you hate blue cheese? I'm not talking about their particular characteristics. I'm talking about the atomic process that brought your mind and body to the state where it likes/dislikes those things.

Maybe I actually like my music because a blade of grass blew up my nose one day and then I went home and took a bath where there were exactly 23 gallons of hot water in the bath. I don't fucking know.

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Arguing over whose genre of music is better is an endless debate, music is a preference and there is no "right" answer. I listen to anything really, from Heavy Metal to Electronic, and still can respect (nearly) all kinds of music.

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Genre labels are generally stupid. Just listen to what's good and you'll be much happier for it.

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Krispavera said:

Genre labels are generally stupid. Just listen to what's good and you'll be much happier for it.

It's true.

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Krispavera said:

Genre labels are generally stupid. Just listen to what's good and you'll be much happier for it.


QFT

I had some hipster recently on Facebook who was trying to tell me that Radiohead are better than Red Hot Chili Peppers. Seriously, how do you even compare the two? Just listen to their music and enjoy it for what it is IMO.

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I've always been bothered by people who argue that the music they listen to (as opposed to what I listen to) is better because the musicians are more talented. I may be completely wrong but I think there's an unteachable degree of talent in strumming chords and pounding maniacally at the drums to create such a reckless panicky sound that I get off to. Usually when I'm listening to metal music, im ignoring it until the very hard parts. Grind and powerviolence says fuck that and just goes straight to what I wanna hear with no bullshit in between.

I'm also a fan of music with really controversial opinions posed in their lyrics.

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I lump a lot of music together with memetics like religion, or that which replicates for its own fitness (from mind to mind rather than body to body like genes). Is it a coincidence that colds make people sneeze and cough- behavior that passes the cold to others? Similarly that which plays on the radio or mtv lol 'infects' more minds. There was a study where individuals selected their favorite tracks from a selection, but random tracks (i think) were labeled as "liked" by peers. This resulted in a positive feedback loop where tracks were liked merely because others liked them (I forget exact details).

Humans do have a real natural use for paying so close attention to sound and that is language so maybe that plays a role in why we like music, perhaps as an 'evolution unintended' side effect. Lyricless music is mostly abstract (but there are culture related and perhaps other cues, for example major scales seem 'happy', fast music seems more aggressive, music made with 8 bit mario sounds will make you think of mario etc). But music with lyrics kind of sets in stone (disc) an ideology. Gangsta rap is so lyrically different from country, its obvious people will bicker about which ideology is best.

But saying 'all music is primarily memetic' is perhaps too simple and black and white. Some music, the kind I usually prefer, seems to have a goal of organizing sound into interesting patterns rather than being popular for the sake of it or spreading some lyrical ideology.

My pet peeve is how some asshat CEO can force all the employees to listen to his personal brand of absolutely lame music all.. day.. long.. 40 hours a week of that crap. Its really like being indoctrinated into his lame ass religion. Once you hear the same song 50 zillion times with no way to escape you want to pull your brain out.

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When I was younger I always ended up in discussions about music. I always tried to explain to people why I liked metal and why it was good and "listen! it IS NOT just screaming and random stuff! they are actually playing!".

It didnt last long until I figured I`d be best off leaving all those discussions alone, and stay to discuss with people with the same taste in music as myself only.

You like what you like. I might think it sucks major ass, but so be it, I`m not gonna rant on about it.

Case? It`s closed.

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Krispavera said:

Genre labels are generally stupid. Just listen to what's good and you'll be much happier for it.

I think the only time genre can be helpful is when it's kept very general and used as a tool to find similar artists. For example, I like Front 242, and at one time I wanted to find similar artists. So I looked up music labeled EBM and industrial to find other artists I liked. It worked, as long as I kept an open mind and didn't argue whether something truly was EBM or industrial.

Arguing about genres, or making sub-genre after sub-genre, is when it gets stupid.

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Blah blah blah subjectivity.

Sigvatr said:

I don't think I've ever been involved in or read a single music argument where anyone within earshot of the argument has had their mind changed about anything. In fact, I'm pretty sure most people walk away from music arguments thinking about how awesome they are and how their mindset has been reinforced by this struggle.


In good chat rooms/forums that weren't just about swinging e-peens around, I've had many discussions with musicians* where I came out of it with a better appreciation for a band or a whole genre in general. I didn't just wake up when I turned 16 and immediately switched my listening habits.

*Thanks Zischen, where ever you are.

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That's all fine and good but there are definitely types of music that do in fact suck.

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Bank said:

That's all fine and good but there are definitely types of music that do in fact suck.

I hope no one decides to post another one of those God awful Swedish videos.

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Liking weird kinds of music is fine by me. I know I have tastes that some people might find weird, but I see nothing wrong with that. For that reason alone, I don't shout my tastes from the rooftops. I know that if I do I'd be forced to justify them... which I have found is utterly impossible. (Seriously, try to justify specifically why you like a band or act with backable evidence - you'll find it's just something that cannot be done on the spur of the moment.)

What I do object to, however, is people who, for no particular reason, will see a song they like appear on the nearest television or radio, stand up and scream "OH MY GOD I LOVELOVELOVE THIS <3 <3 <3". I'm happy for you, really - you are able to derive pleasure from the ear-piercing drone of modern pop that gets aired on a day-to-day basis, much to my personal disgust. But please do not assail our ears with your impromptu tuneless belching of the main vocal melody for whichever ghastly song it is you're currently jiggling about to, in a way that makes the Honda Asimo look like Michael Jackson, filling in the words you don't know with "mehhh", "weeerr" and "duuuhhhn".

Seriously, grow up.

/end half-serious mini-rant

FAKE EDIT: Oh yeah, and also (you same people), your cameraphone's MP3 playback quality goes far beyond the realms of "shite", and enters "so god-awful it makes me want to pour bleach into my ears" territory. Turn the fucking thing off when you're on the bus, you inconsiderate self-righteous pricks.

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Partition36 said:

I think the only time genre can be helpful is when it's kept very general and used as a tool to find similar artists. For example, I like Front 242, and at one time I wanted to find similar artists. So I looked up music labeled EBM and industrial to find other artists I liked. It worked, as long as I kept an open mind and didn't argue whether something truly was EBM or industrial.

Arguing about genres, or making sub-genre after sub-genre, is when it gets stupid.


Yeah that's pretty much what I think. There are obviously boundaries between different styles of music, but when the bickering starts is when I remove my belt.

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AveryMaurice said:

Arguing over whose genre of music is better is an endless debate, music is a preference and there is no "right" answer. I listen to anything really, from Heavy Metal to Electronic, and still can respect (nearly) all kinds of music.


I agree. I personally listen to anything that sounds good, regardless of genre.

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The only comment I have about music genres:
I find it interesting that it's always hip to liken your favorite music to progressive rock (because it's skillful and well-composed), but never to actually like prog rock itself (because it's that gay stuff your dad listens to).

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Bucket said:

The only comment I have about music genres:
I find it interesting that it's always hip to liken your favorite music to progressive rock (because it's skillful and well-composed), but never to actually like prog rock itself (because it's that gay stuff your dad listens to).

Dude, Coheed and Cambria is totally like prog rock. They do like badass concept albums about shit that makes you think, yo. Yes and King Crimson sound like old people music though. Fuck that shit. Have you ever heard either of them on MTV? No? Didn't think so.

You know what I find funny? There's a shit ton of bands that are dubbed "progressive" or "neo-progressive" that intentionally imitate the old prog rock bands of the 70s to a T. So how exactly is that considered "progressive", when there's nothing new or innovative in the music?

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Wagi said:

If it doesn't give you the chills, it's not good music.

What about the people who can't get the chills?

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AgentSpork said:

Dude, Coheed and Cambria is totally like prog rock.


I want to choke the singer to death! :(

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punk rox metal sux get over it doomworld

Bank said:

That's all fine and good but there are definitely types of music that do in fact suck.

Are you being overly fanatic or do you really believe this? Are you expecting it to power your windmill or cool your house in the summertime? Is there some objective that music is supposed to work toward, some certain task it is supposed to complete that you can say that some music "sucks"? Because I don't see music being any different from sound without your subjective ear.

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AgentSpork said:

You know what I find funny? There's a shit ton of bands that are dubbed "progressive" or "neo-progressive" that intentionally imitate the old prog rock bands of the 70s to a T. So how exactly is that considered "progressive", when there's nothing new or innovative in the music?

They're hard to find, and not worth the effort to. What are really the big names in prog since 1980?

Marillion: Typical 1980s rock with some fiddly keyboard segments and the occasional weird chord sequence. No highs or lows.
Radiohead: was very well-made alternative rock, now just an alternative to Ativan.
Tool: Hey, we can play in 7/8! Isn't that awesome? I mean, we only play in 3 keys but still.
Porcupine Tree: Mix 1 part Radiohead with 2 parts Tool. Repeat endlessly with minimal composition.

Then we have what I've been told is REAL modern prog rock, with bands like Echolyn. (Think that's the name, don't remember offhand.) Again, a superficial imitation with no real feeling to the music. Chord changes and meandering solos ahoy. Sounds like a Yes circlejerk.

Fuck it.

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Lüt said:

What about the people who can't get the chills?

Forced migration to the polar regions should cure them. ;-)

[/i]DuckReconMajor said:[/i]
Because I don't see music being any different from sound without your subjective ear.

One person's music is another person's noise. Like so many things we form opinions on, music appreciation is highly subjective.

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DuckReconMajor said:

Are you being overly fanatic or do you really believe this? Are you expecting it to power your windmill or cool your house in the summertime? Is there some objective that music is supposed to work toward, some certain task it is supposed to complete that you can say that some music "sucks"? Because I don't see music being any different from sound without your subjective ear.


What part of my response claimed to be objective?

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