Doom Core

[valkiriforce]

I'd hate to say that like anyone else new to the community, I'd also given in to wanting to make a megawad, because it seemed like a pretty cool idea at the time. As you might know, I've been working on a megawad called Doom Core for some time now. The problem I've been having lately isn't the dedication to complete it, but rather that it feels a bit jumbled to me now. Say for example, I have a cool idea for a level, so I make it and put it in the megawad, then I make plenty of other maps to follow and start improving as I progress. Then I look back on that map that seemed like a cool idea at the time and it looks out of place now because the newer levels look better. So I replace that level with another level. Then I end up following the other levels with replacements as well. I've been cycling levels in and out of this megawad for awhile and now I feel like it's just too mixed up.

The other thing is, for awhile I wasn't aware of all the limitations of Vanilla Doom and why everyone refers to using source ports and all that stuff. If I were better aware of these things back then, I would have made this a vanilla megawad. Now it's more of a Boom-compatible megawad because of all the limit-removing features as well as having used some of Boom's effects. I thought transferred sky textures seemed pretty neat, too, but I think it just adds to the mess of levels that is Doom Core. I don't want to give up on it because I've been at it for awhile, but I would like to know what anyone else thinks I should do. I remember hearing 40oz talk about how people shouldn't act like everything they release should be the best thing ever, and I agree with this. But I also feel for those who have spoken about releasing only quality levels, which also sounds reasonable. I'm not saying these are a bunch of box rooms and all that, they aren't, but it's starting to feel out of place for me. I was considering releasing some of the better quality maps as individual levels, but I can't help but feel it's not that far from completion (29 maps) and I did well to keep working on it. I've actually made a total of 41 maps for this megawad, but over time filtered out the lesser-quality maps. Even now I'm starting to look at some of the maps again and feel the need to replace them. So I was wondering if anyone had anything to say about it. :\

[Seeker_of_Truth]

Put up some screenies. I don't know too much about mapping myself, but I think having something to look at will help answer your question.

[DeathevokatioN]

I've been waiting for this with baited breath after seeing those great classic looking screenshots on Wads in Progress, if anything, the inconsistencies may actually lead to a bit more variety, like how MM was for to me. One thing I've started becoming aware of after a few of my early maps got unexpected praise from my mates (maybe they said the maps were cool just to not hurt my feelings though haha) is that a lot of the time as a mapper you might get repulsed over finer details after having to look at the map for 40th time in the editor, and get sick of a map wheras a normal player who is experiencing everything for the first time would enjoy it a lot. But hey, you never know, I say, release it, at worst people would let you know the low points and as a result you learn off the criticism you recieve and benefit as a mapper for future projects.

Screenshots over here...
http://www.wadsinprogress.info/?a=listwads&wad=1465

[darkreaver]

I dont know what input I can give, really, but...I want you to finish it up and release it, hehe..

If you have as much as 29 maps...well, thats alot. I can only speak for myself, but there is a much higher chance I`ll play your maps if they are released in a megawad, than if they are released as standalone maps. I mean; WHY release maps one by one? Its just tedious. Keep them together in one file. No need for consistency by theme, "story" and stuff like that. It`s just a collection of your maps! Simple as that.

TRY to clear your biased mind, and go through all your maps again. Get rid of the ones you REALLY have doubts about (if any), and make new ones.

I`m also really curious of what you dont think is good enough. I`m talking about the ones you have already thrown out of the project. Are they really bad, or is it just you that think so?
I dont think I have played any maps you made, but I`m not sure right now. Gonna look into it if you have released anything.

[valkiriforce]

Thanks for the encouragement, I didn't want to have to post this topic, but I'm glad I did now. I'll have to get to this again, since it's been sitting this way for about 5 months or so (and that's why I've been contributing levels to other projects and such).

[valkiriforce]

I'll be needing some playtesters soon. I've decidedly thrown in some of Reverie's rejected maps as well as the one from Plutonia Revisited (The Gutterway). I just need to go through some level names, songs, etc. and make sure everything is in place.

EDIT: And remember, this is just a collection of 32 maps I made over the course of a year or so.

[Snakes]

valkiriforce said:

Thanks for the encouragement, I didn't want to have to post this topic, but I'm glad I did now. I'll have to get to this again, since it's been sitting this way for about 5 months or so (and that's why I've been contributing levels to other projects and such).

5 months? Shit, I've made 13 maps for UR in the past year, dude. I'd be happy to playtest for ya!

[Grain of Salt]

[DeathevokatioN]

Looking forward to this one. And don't worry, Momento Mori and Requiem are collections of maps, and those mapsets kick ass. Variety makes a mapset feel more like an adventure. No need for theme monotony, erm wait I mean theme consistency. ;) The central theme is that your fighting against hell. What more do we need?

Damn you Grain of Salt, and here I was thinking I was the heavyweight for making 2 maps in a year. :P

[darkreaver]

I dont have the time or dedication to do any testing atm, but I`m really looking forward to checking out what you have going on here!

32 maps in a year (or so)? Damn.

[magicsofa]

Release it and start over.


You're never going to make the perfect megawad. It sounds like you have put considerable effort into this, especially considering the fact that you've been replacing the maps that became outdated. However, you are having issues with it just being a jumbled set of maps. That's fine: I think you should wrap it up, you pretty much have replaced all of doom2, and begin a new project instead of replacing these maps forever. That way you can start to have more direction. You've created 41 levels and a great deal of them will be scrutinized by the community, giving you plenty to improve upon, but also you have a lot of experience. Now that you've gotten over many of the first hurdles of mapping you can come up with a more concrete idea for a project. Doesn't have to be something crazy or pushing the envelope, just something to guide you, something that you want to create that's a little more specific than "A doom megawad." Plus you will have the opportunity to decide on mapping for a specific port or at least implementing boom features right off the bat

[Dutch Doomer]

I know what you mean about some of your maps feeling out of place compared to the later ones. You improve your skills as you go along, and your older maps might look very different from the ones you made when you got better at mapping. I'd say release what you've got, even though you think that some of the maps ain't perfect, the community may think otherwise.

Its takes me a godammn year to finish one map :)

[Grain of Salt]

[DeathevokatioN]

Grain of Salt said:

Right now your talent for idleness is entirely untapped. However, if you study hard, you may one day rival me. :3

I'll take your comment with a pinch of salt. :P

[Grain of Salt]

[aldiboronti]

I agree with magicsofa. Get it playtested and release it. You'll never be completely satisfied with it, there will always be maps that you feel need improvement or replacement, you will always be your own harshest critic. I have to say that from the look of those screenshots I can't wait to play this!

[omegamer]

I´d like to playtest if you want :-)

[valkiriforce]

I've decided to post the megawad here for anyone who would like to try it out and maybe give me some input (despite having hardly touched this thing for a while now): http://download1109.mediafire.com/27uakyixobwg/rzq8o0qkgec4053/DC.zip

[DeathevokatioN]

Awesome, I'll try it once I'm done with exams. :)

[chexwarrior]

So far its pretty cool.

Let me ask you something. On map 02, is that the midi version of the song from the level Altar of Pain in Doom 64?

[valkiriforce]

Chex Warrior said:

So far its pretty cool.

Let me ask you something. On map 02, is that the midi version of the song from the level Altar of Pain in Doom 64?

Close, but it's actually from the level "Watch Your Step".

[darkreaver]

Gonna play that shit apart on sunday, when I`m hungover as fuck.

[chexwarrior]

valkiriforce said:
Close, but it's actually from the level "Watch Your Step".

Damn! I'm slipping! :(

[valkiriforce]

Made some changes to the WAD, so if you have this please use the new download link above.

[elic]

Just finished MAP01, and it was pretty good. The detail level wasn't high, but it was good enough for me. The music was really loud for some reason, which should be fixed.

I IDCLEVed to see a few random levels, and the difference in setting reminds me of Memento Mori.

[valkiriforce]

I'm currently working on another version of this megawad that is going to be vanilla-compatible. I'm rather surprised at the results and actually more satisfied with the changes I've been making. Sure, I may have had to sacrifice a few details (not that there was much to look at anyway) but I feel it makes the megawad more acceptable in the sense that people would expect to find not-so-detailed levels coming from something vanilla compatible rather than something boom-compatible.

Anyway, I was inspired from Pcorf's updated version of The Twilight Zone to make another version of this megawad that is vanilla compatible. Who knows, we'll where it goes from here.

[hawkwind]

Bugs

map 02 ...

Switch for lift at line 485 should have been SR , not S1, since the player can be trapped at sector 4.

map 03 ...

Switch at line 1750 can still be activated even if the columns in front are still raised. - minor.

If I find any more I'll mention them.

[gggmork]

Here's first demo attempts for 23 to 27 if interested (i suck at fda and died on all of them I think).
http://www.speedyshare.com/files/28727113/dc-fda-23-27-ggg.zip

Memory is hazy but (27?) had infinitely tall barrels blocking the path in case you didn't know. (25 or 26?) had a very small area above a switch that was supposed to be sky but wasn't. 23 had fat arachnotrons mostly block the horde (but I died anyway). Couldn't figure out what to do on the level with a long thin sunken loop you walk through and 1 lift out.
Overall they're fun unique levels in my opinion and look nice. They'd be a lot easier on uvmax when I know what to do rather than 1st attempts.

[gun_psycho]

Having looked at all of the maps, I say that playing this in Scoredoom (whenever I would get around to it) is going to be a really fun experience, especially in the monster-heavy maps. Map30 being challenging is quite a step-up from the ones that are just the straight-to-the-boss type of map30 maps.

[valkiriforce]

Thanks for that report hawkwind, can't believe I never noticed the SW1 error.

I've also recently completed a vanilla-compatible version of this megawad; though I'm still making some tweaks here and there and making sure some details are fixed up a bit. It's kind of like Plutonia 2 in that some areas have HOM in them; but it's only in like two or three levels so I reckon it that can't be too bad, but I'll see if I can do something about it. I also replaced MAP28 as that one was too hard to make vanilla compatible as there are lots of big areas visible and are a sure cause of visplane overflows.

I'll be sure to check out those FDAs at some point, thanks.

[EDIT] Here's the vanilla-compatible version: http://www.mediafire.com/?t4ugau6k35x65yn
Hasn't thoroughly been playtested for vanilla compatability, but I did do a quick IDDQD run through all 32 levels last night (which was exhausting). I may have noticed some things but I can't recall everything that needed fixing. Anyway, I didn't want to have to delay the release of this version.