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SoBeR_ReBeL

Favorite Heretic and Hexen Monster

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Favorite Heretic monster: Ophidian, not much to say about him other than he kicks ass.

Favorite Hexen monster: Reiver, annoying yet cool looking. The design is brilliant. Scared the shit out of me as a kid.

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Both wizards (Disciple of D'Sparil and Dark Bishop), Chaos Serpent, and the Heresiarch.

Hexen II (if that's possible): Knight Archer and Skull Wizard.

Heretic II: lol.

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Favorite to kill in Heretic is the Golem.. they make funny sound when they die. But maybe otherwise I like the Saberclaws or whatever their name was.

In Hexen it's the reptiles in the swamp. But I would like to leave them alive, because I like reptiles and they're cute. They should have been more demonic looking like the Chaos Serpents.

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BurningCadavre said:

Heresiarch.



Question: What's cool about a monster whose main trait is that it's invulnerable most of the time? Without that the Heresiarch would be a joke. He's still a joke because of the 3, maybe 4 minutes you need to dispatch of him, he can't be attacked 70-80% of the time so all you can do is wait, hide behind some pillars for his shield to wear off. And his attacks are pitiful for a major boss.

If Hexen failed somewhere it's both major bosses. They are far too easy to kill and don't really pose a serious challenge.

The Death Wyvern on the other hand, despite having significantly lower health, now that was a great boss, easily my favorite in the game of all monsters. It is unique in its design and requires tactics you don't normally use elsewhere.

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Heresiarch is awesome, and fuck you Graf for daring to think any different and having your own opinion. ;)

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You still haven't told me what's so awesome about a monster that

- has absolutely pitiful attacks that pose no serious threat to the player
- could be brought down in 30 seconds if it hadn't an invulnerability shield
- and where you can't attack it most of the time because the attack has no effect due to the aforementioned shield

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Agreed with Graf, the Heresiarch is pathetic ( Edit : but the whole idea of a cloaked demon with floating runic cubes and different magical powers is great in itself ).
Same goes for Heretic's Maulotaur, but maybe it's because I was expecting something at least as powerful as a Cyberdemon.

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He looks cool through, and that's what counts, you are so negative Graf :P

Favourite monster from Hexen is the green Chaos Serpent, it just looks so goofy and mean at the same time, it's just a shame it doesn't have a better death animation.

From Heretic, it would have to be the Undead Knight. It's a tall lanky skeleton that throws magic axes, such a bizarre concept but it works. Also, I love the sound it makes when you kill it, so satisfying. :P

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Graf Zahl said:

You still haven't told me what's so awesome about a monster that

- has absolutely pitiful attacks that pose no serious threat to the player
- could be brought down in 30 seconds if it hadn't an invulnerability shield
- and where you can't attack it most of the time because the attack has no effect due to the aforementioned shield


The Heresiarch is awesome! He may be a wimp nowadays, but back then he was very hard.

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Ophidian and the Death Wyvern

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Graf Zahl said:

You still haven't told me what's so awesome about a monster that

- has absolutely pitiful attacks that pose no serious threat to the player
- could be brought down in 30 seconds if it hadn't an invulnerability shield
- and where you can't attack it most of the time because the attack has no effect due to the aforementioned shield


You really like to bitch.

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Heretic - Weredragon: Despite being somewhat threating looking, its actually a very weak monster due to its weak fireball attacks but I like the death animation.

Hexen - Wendigo: Ice monster that shoots ice nuff said.

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SoBeR_ReBeL said:

but back then he was very hard.



The only reason you found him hard was because you wasted 90% of your mana on his shield without hurting him.

A monster that's hard to fight because it's a formidable opponent (like the Cyberdemon) is one thing but a monster that's hard to fight because it's eating all your ammo without taking any damage is, forgive my bluntness, utterly pathetic design on behalf of the game's creators - even more so if, like here, the visual cues are hard to spot, especially in the original low resolution. Essentially he's one big cheat.

So again, you can state 10 times that he's 'awesome' but I still haven't gotten anything beyond that statement to explain why he is so awesome.

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Heretic - Disciples of D'Sparil

Hexen - Can't decide, liked the Reiver, Wendigo, Dark Bishop and Afrit.

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Graf Zahl said:

The only reason you found him hard was because you wasted 90% of your mana on his shield without hurting him.


What i am saying is in 1995 when we met him for the first time no regular gamer knew how to successfully kill him. You don't seem to care about the time period this game came out.

But granted Korax was a big letdown.

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SoBeR_ReBeL said:

What i am saying is in 1995 when we met him for the first time no regular gamer knew how to successfully kill him.



Absolutely correct. It was no different for me. But that doesn't make a good monster. The reason people did not know how to kill him is because there was no good clue that he was invulnerable most of the time.

So instead of a memorable encounter all I got was an endlessly drawn out 'fight' against something that was standing still most of the time and had a painfully slow and inefficient attack while taking no damage. In the end, using the fighter back then, I beat him with the fists, which ironically was the best method not knowing that most hits had no effect. Since his attack is so slow I punched him dozens of times between attacks and eventually enough got through to finish him off.

(On second thought, yes, it was memorable - but not in a good way.)

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The cyberdemon can be taken out pretty easily too if you have a BFG.

As for my favorit monsters though. It's hard to pin point since they got different traits that I find special and rearding.

Heretic:
The Golem, Because I like the design of it's art and sounds. Plus it can be a good foe in it's various incarnations.

The Imp/Gargoyle, I love the idea of swarming gargoyles. And it's very rewarding taking them out with gasbags or timebombs when they are in a pack.

Disciples, They are a delight. Plus they can give you tomes of power which is awesome.

Iron Lich, some people probably find them tiresome, and when you are forced to wait out a whirlwind it can get a bit tedious. But they also offer a lot of fun and they got 3 quite different and potentially dangerous attacks. And I like their grin.

Malotaurs: They're easy in one on one. But what monster isn't really? However, if you got other monsters or matters occupying your attention, be wary or they will shoot a rod of fire up your ass that you are unlikely to survive. It's unfortunate that the other attacks aren't especially damaging though.

D'sparil: A teleporting cyberdemon, that spawns Disciples, need I say more?

the other monsters got their advantages too. But this is getting long.

Hexen:
The slaughtaur, unlike the centaur it's actually dangerous, and with a bit of strategy you don't have to suffer the slow task of waiting for their shields forever.

The stalker boss, these guys are a very dangerous foe in packs. But a well timed swing of the axe will stop every time.

The heresiarch, simply because it's looking very cool. I agree with Graf that it's not too fun to fight it. And I am fairly convinced that it was originally supposed to be riding the beast that ended up as Korax and that this guy was indeed supposed to be Korax himself.

Dragon Lich, for the reasons Graf said.

Ettin, I just like killing these guys.

Riever (buried), Yeah, I like rising from the dead. Especially when they just keep coming.

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heretic: ophidian, undead warrior, wizard, iron lich and d'sparil
hexen: bishop, wendigo and heresiarch
general: minotaur

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Heretic: Either ophidians or disciples.
Hexen: Death Wyvern (Brackenwood is especially nasty for the fighter)

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Heretic: Em, probably the Weredragon. While not very dangerous, I love the artstyle and their death animation (I despise the Gib animation though)

HeXen: Ettins are fun to kill in big packs, bu Chaos Serpents are just badass.

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An honorable mention is the Wendigo. While very cool looking. They are a pain in the ass in groups. Especially with the Fighter on Titan difficulty in the secret ice area in Guardian of Steel.

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Wendigos are impossible if you're playing as the fighter on the hardest skill level. Good lord.

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I agree with a lot of what Graf Zahl has said. Hexen monsters in particular are often terrible (lack of challenge or tiresome).

Cyberdemon is awesome. It looks menacing and angry, has a great ass, and actually is dangerous. While an experienced player can kill him easily, you can't just stand there, even dodging the 3 rockets is not trivial if space is limited. And if something offends him, he quickly destroys it.

Heresiarch looks pathetic by comparison. Heresiarch and Centaurs would be much more interesting to fight if their reflective shield was constantly on, but without invulnerability.

Heretic
===========


Gargoyles are primitive, but surprisingly effective (compared to Demons and Lost Souls). Swarms of them are dangerous. I especially like the melee gargoyle. A minor point - many Heretic weapons have kitschy or campy look (or are just plain ugly visually). Gargoyles are acceptable. I wish Hexen had these guys instead of the pathetic ettins.

Nitrogolems are also effective in a primitive way. They don't have the long attack delay of Demons, their ranged attack is relatively rare but good. They feel like a melee monster with an extra trick, not a shooter which also does damage in melee. Visually okay.

Undead knights are okay, too. Nothing great, but they're less random than Hexen's Chaos Serpents and and don't look as ugly as Weredragons. 2 shots is somewhat unique.

Ophidians are okay, too. They look decent, are rather dangerous, and distinctive from gameplay point of view.

Hexen
=====

Ettins look great, but are pathetic. Seriously, stand next to one and check how long it takes for him to kill you. With Hexen's abundance of nomonster lines and otherwise inaccessible areas, they're just sad. Put on an armour and you can go to a toilet with an Ettin next to you.

Afrits look and sound much better than Gargoyles, but are again pathetic. Check how much damage these guys deal, even if they manage to hit you. I have a soft spot for them, though.

I dislike Wendigos and Chaos Serpents because fighting them feels so random. If they decide to shoot you at short range, there's basically nothing you can do about it.

Centaur - good looking but extremely tiresome. Am I the only person to notice their reflective shield is pointless ? A good player almost never hits a defending centaur.

Slaughtaur - dangerous in a bad way. Their missiles are very hard to dodge at short range, and they're luck-based in general.

Stalker - good looking, but once the novelty wears off, tiresome and of little threat.

Stalker Boss - these are actually interesting, many slow weapons like Frost Shards or Hammer are hard to use against them. Fists are actually better than the axe.

Dark Bishop - ahh, finally we're getting somewhere. They would be a very nice monster if it wasn't for their habit of trying to shoot through walls. This makes them very tiresome. I prefer these guys to Disciples of D'Sparil.

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Overall, Hexen's monsters are very good looking but either no threat or very frustrating. I've beaten Hexen a couple of times with various classes (on highest difficulty), and it was just frustrating, not hard. Very uneaven difficulty. Mechanic-wise, DooM2 (not DooM1) monsters re much better designed and interesting. All of them are threats. Heretic's are a bit better, but ugly looking.

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I'm experimenting with my own rebalancing mod for Hexen. It's in very early stages, but I have several pages of ideas and can implement them (Computer Science degree, and Vavoom). I won't bore you with my ideas because I'm not likely to muster enough motivation to implement them. PM me if you're interested.

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I like fighting large crowds of Ettins as the fighter.

I'd love to just beat enemies to death instead of using magical mana attacks. The annoying thing about playing as the fighter is that once you run out of mana, the more powerful weapons don't do any more damage than your gauntlets.

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In Heretic I like Disciple of D'Sparil the most. Just because of my childhood memories. They were whispering and that gave a teenager such a thrill heh ;) During the vacation, about 16 years ago, my younger siblings didn't want to go to sleep without mother after playing Heretic heh ;) After some time I realized their whispers were played backwards.

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bgraybr said:

The annoying thing about playing as the fighter is that once you run out of mana, the more powerful weapons don't do any more damage than your gauntlets.

The sledgehammer still do the same damage in melee. It only use mana for it's projectiles.

EDIT: And if you play Korax mod, you will basically end up playing the whole game with the queitus as you can use it without mana as well there and since you're leveling it, you end up about as unstoppable as a freight train (Though the bosses has been buffed so they aren't as big a pushover as in hexen). Still when I played it, it never seemed to get old to hack the monsters down with the queitus. It was thoroughly rewarding.

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