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40oz

TF2 Merchandise

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1. It puts real currency value on objects that don't even exist, are nonrefundable, and cannot be traded to anyone other than someone who's been psychologically trained to be as obsessed with the game as the person who initially bought the item.

2. Items that now have real money value can be "earned" by repeatedly playing the game. The initial reason for playing TF2 was to be entertained, but this makes players feel like they are doing something productive when they are rewarded with intangible items that have real money value. What is really happening is Valve is still making money off of a game they released years ago without selling any physical copies. At the same time the players are fueling their fame. "Company that created Team Fortress 2, the most active multiplayer tactical military shooter since 2007" sounds really good on a resume. The truth is that the players are less likely playing it for entertainment and more likely playing it for the false rewards.

Go ahead TF2 players. Defend your addictions. I'll just sit here and laugh.

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40oz said:

The truth is that the players are less likely playing it for entertainment and more likely playing it for the false rewards.


...no.

I'm playing it to have fun. You know, to shoot stuff, build stuff, and so on. I also happen to have found a top hat, which I have no interest in selling.

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Hats are stupid but the game is still fun, although some of the unlockable weapons are incredibly dumb

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I tried TF2 for a couple hours, haven't touched it again. I don't know if it was fun or not, I just couldn't stand the out of place hats, ruining the original design of the game. You'd think something so distracting that actually delays your recognition of a class's specific head would be optional, but nope.

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The TF2 pay-for store is really silly, in my eyes, but all I have to do is not use it and the game is fun again. :P

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I wish there was an option to turn hats off because they look ugly as shit. Also some of the new unlocks do not fit the art style at all.

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I never did care for hats, I played because of the fun gameplay and the occasional new weapons (which had to be "unlocked" with ACHIEVEMENTS, an idiotic design flaw they still haven't fixed) but now.. I really can't. I'm not going to waste my time playing when I don't have all the choices in arsenal that others may have. "Yeah but they're sidegrades!" Missing the point. Having the ability to choose is a distinct advantage. Besides, the gameplay has become bloated and cumbersome. Even the main menu looks like IE raped by adware.

Fanboys always defend by saying that you can still get the items by playing normally. Okay, it's not like I've not heard that before. *COUGH* Korean MMOs *COUGH* For an example, let's take the Scout's Milkman set hat. To craft one, which you need for the set bonus of +25 health (a large amount) you will need 4 refined metal and a weapon from the set. 1 refined metal is crafted from 3 reclaimed metals. 1 reclaimed metal is crafted from 3 scrap metals. 1 scrap metal is crafted by combining two compatible leftover weapons.

Now, how to get the weapons needed to craft the metal? Wait. Thats right, you can do nothing but wait. Even then, there's a cap on drops per week. This means that there's a fixed time you need to wait before you'll have the chance to get said hat. So better get your waiting pants ready because you'll be sitting around for months before you will be competitive. Or you can buy the hat right away for the low price of $17.99. It's okay, you can get it through normal gameplay!

The visual style of the game has been ruined. Despite what many think, originally the style wasn't based on any cartoon or Pixar film. If you listen to the developer commentaries - a sad testament to the integrity of the game - you'll see that a LOT of thought was put into every aspect of the game, be it visual or otherwise. All that has been put aside for the sake of wacky hijinks and zany headgear. Or how can you justify stupid shit like a Spy with a green cartoon smilie pin on his chest and bright pink camera beard and squid on his head? Kids like to be unique snowflakes no matter how much it doesn't fit the game's artistic concept and Valve sees the money in milking the people who have already bought the game; after all everyone who's interested in TF2 already has it.

Well that's my 2 scrap metals about the topic. Nothing more comes to head right now.

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I think they started undermining the game when all the new weapons started coming out. It meant the sides weren't predictably even, which has been a facet of Team Fortress and one of the design goals since the beginning.

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Team Fortress 2 is one of the best FPSes ever made, and still is.

Mann Co. Store: When the store was implemented, items were already pretty easy to get. You can get them just by playing, you can craft them with spare weapons, and some you can get through achievements. After the store was implemented, all of these things remained in place, but on top of these methods, you can buy the weapons with cash to get them sooner. It's entirely optional, period. Obviously people are going to whine, and those people are selfish assholes:

No gaming company puts out more free shit than Valve. This game in particular got 3 years of free updates--maps, game modes, map themes, weapons, balance changes up the wazoo, and even big changes to classes (airblast, moving sentries etc). Valve even released a full game for free last year. And now, instead of releasing an expansion or buyable update or something any other company would do, they do a modest, optional, buyable update that you can get most of in a matter of hours without paying.. So now, Valve's employees can make at least a little bit of money without forcing any player to pay to continue playing. This is the most modest way of making money a game company's ever gone through with, in order to keep this game fresh and free...

And not only that, but tons of money is now going to the game's contributors (both map and weapon contributors now). All of these creative, kind people now have avenues of getting money for their hard work, and the most annoying sector of TF2 players can't stand it, when it doesn't hurt them at all.

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1. It puts real currency value on objects that don't even exist, are nonrefundable, and cannot be traded to anyone other than someone who's been psychologically trained to be as obsessed with the game as the person who initially bought the item.

Seriously? You've never paid money for something that doesn't exist, is nonrefundable, and can't be traded to someone uninterested in the object? What about internet? Cable? An MMO subscription? Hell, when you buy any downloadable video game, you're buying something entirely virtual for your amusement.

(By the way, purchased items cannot be traded)



2. Items that now have real money value can be "earned" by repeatedly playing the game. The initial reason for playing TF2 was to be entertained, but this makes players feel like they are doing something productive when they are rewarded with intangible items that have real money value. What is really happening is Valve is still making money off of a game they released years ago without selling any physical copies. At the same time the players are fueling their fame. "Company that created Team Fortress 2, the most active multiplayer tactical military shooter since 2007" sounds really good on a resume. The truth is that the players are less likely playing it for entertainment and more likely playing it for the false rewards.

You can make your #2 argument for any online game with objects in it. If anything, the Mann Co. Store makes it so that your #2 argument does NOT work with TF2, because items are not sellable anymore. No one would buy them, because they can buy them from Valve. You can't really put TF2 items for sale on the internet like you can put WoW accounts (or any other game).

Valve has found a way to make money off of some players who are willing to give them money for things they could have gotten for free just by playing but adore Valve enough to give them money anyway, for all the nice content they give away to everyone.

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I can agree TF2 isn't the only game that's ever done this. It's just disgusting to me to know that Valve, who's notorious for creating first person shooters, is stooping down to this level instead of just creating games with qualities that are fun and entertaining and timeless like Doom does.

Epyo said:

Valve has found a way to make money off of some players who are willing to give them money for things they could have gotten for free just by playing but adore Valve enough to give them money anyway, for all the nice content they give away to everyone.


I'm sure this is the case. You might also be surprised to know that alcoholics usually give bartenders really generous tips.

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My theory on this is that it was probably the only way they could keep the TF2 team together. Supposedly the game was still making money, but it's been out for three years now, getting almost constant updates, and I remember hearing the actual development team was down to six people at one point. They don't even have dedicated QA testers anymore, the team just playtests the game themselves.

That probably explains why they turned to the community for modeling help in the first place. With the store, they're giving a quarter of what they get back, at least. Maybe it'll help fund some actual optimization to the engine itself, too. It's just as easy to get weapons in-game as before, I had most of the new ones the week after they were patched in, so the store's not really harming the gameplay. (Not to mention new players should be learning with the default stuff anyway, since with a few exceptions it has more potential than any of the alternatives.)

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40oz said:

"Company that created Team Fortress 2, the most active multiplayer tactical military shooter since 2007" sounds really good on a resume.


And being the makers of Half-Life and Half-Life 2 dosen't?

Anyway, while I was a bit unhappy at first, I realised it's not that bad. It isn't forcing me to pay anything more, as I can still get (most) of the items in-game for free.

And people being retarded because they pay for this kinda thing is basically the same as saying that people are retarded for buying expansion packs and DLC.

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I love TF2 and still find it fun after they implemented the store. It really changed nothing. I never bought anything from it and I still feel I'm doing as well as I ever did.

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Heh, when I read "someone who's been psychologically trained to be as obsessed with the game" I could almost swear I was reading a Fox News article. All it needs is a statement about how the relationship between the medic and heavy encourages sexually deviant behaviors.

multiplayer tactical military shooter


And like most tactical military shooters you can eat a sandwich to heal any wounds you may have sustained or drink an energy drink to become completely bullet proof.

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40oz said:

The initial reason for playing TF2 was to be entertained, but this makes players feel like they are doing something productive when they are rewarded with intangible items that have real money value.


What the fuck are you talking about? To some, chasing virtual items IS productive and entertaining. Are you saying that's somehow not valid?

And why single out TF2? Haven't you heard of WOW, Aion, MAG, and Jebus-Knows-How-Many other MMOs?

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Let me preface this by saying you've been doing a lot of whining recently 40oz, you should relax buddy.

While most games stop being played or even supported at all after a handful of years, TF2 has been continuously supported by Valve with new content updates since its release. A lot of people love playing it and if the new hat stuff has them enjoying it, who cares? It's a decent business model to generate revenue against all of the content updates they've had to produce since the title's release and you don't have to pay a dime to continue to play the game as you want.

What is the big deal and why are you getting so bent out of shape?

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Ralphis said:

What is the big deal and why are you getting so bent out of shape?


Because we can't possibly let people have BADWRONGFUN.

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I'm glad I jumped out last year before lots of this lame stuff popped up.

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I really don't understand all the hate going on over the new stuff in TF2. It's really not all that big a deal. In fact, I've noticed that for most of the classes, just using the default weapons can be as effective as using the alternates. All it takes is a small adjustment to your playing style. I've only really noticed a difference when playing Spy and using a different watch. But someone else might only notice a difference when playing Heavy and using more powerful weapons that slow them down.

Plus, it adds a dynamic to the game that really wasn't there at first. Sure, some of the themes are a bit... stupid, but there's no reason to be all SERIOUS BUSINESS about it.

Chill out, enjoy the game if you want, and let well enough alone.

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Membrain said:

I really don't understand all the hate going on over the new stuff in TF2. It's really not all that big a deal. In fact, I've noticed that for most of the classes, just using the default weapons can be as effective as using the alternates. All it takes is a small adjustment to your playing style. I've only really noticed a difference when playing Spy and using a different watch. But someone else might only notice a difference when playing Heavy and using more powerful weapons that slow them down.


This. Valve's done a pretty good job of keeping the weapons balanced with the stock weapons so it's rarely if ever a matter of getting a new weapon and completely replacing one of the default weapons with it. A lot of the unlockable weapons seem to serve for more specific purposes and tend to be less all around than the default ones. Take the brass beat for instance. It's great as a sort of stationary defensive weapon but it slows you down way too much and takes too long to spin up than Natascha or the default minigun.

Plus, it adds a dynamic to the game that really wasn't there at first. Sure, some of the themes are a bit... stupid, but there's no reason to be all SERIOUS BUSINESS about it.


This too. Come to think about it, since when has TF2 ever even been serious business at all?

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Even though I have no interest in playing TF2, I think the xbox 360 version is hat free. If I'm not mistaken Valve has no interest in updating the console version.

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fatal error said:

Even though I have no interest in playing TF2, I think the xbox 360 version is hat free. If I'm not mistaken Valve has no interest in updating the console version.


It's also player-free.

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fatal error said:

If I'm not mistaken Valve has no interest in updating the console version.

They did, until Microsoft told them how much money it would cost to actually have patches released for it.
I recall Gabe Newell saying it would take roughly "several hundred thousand dollars" in Xbox Live fees.

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Too much money in stupid people's hands...

Do what people used to in the 70s. Making too much fucking money? There's Cocaine.

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fatal error said:

Even though I have no interest in playing TF2, I think the xbox 360 version is hat free. If I'm not mistaken Valve has no interest in updating the console version.

It also apparently has no aim assist added in, which is really annoying for a system that forces you to use controllers. And it sucks.

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