Explanation of 2 shotting cybers

Hi everyone,

I am trying to figure out how to 2 shot cybers with the bfg and I just can't seem to do it. I can 1 shot a mastermind, but 2 shotting a cyber seems much harder. Could someone explain how to do it?

I guess it seems like I should be able to do it since a mastermind having 3000 health goes down in 1, a cyber with 4000 shouldn't take much more to bring down in 2.

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tracers are emitted from your eyes apparently, so at the moment of impact of the bfg projectile you need to bury your face into cybie's crotch and let it all out. two full ballsack hits and he goes down reliably every time. nothing random about it, just a frontal dash into his lap, no sliding off, no dodging rockets during impact. also sorry for the horrible imagery.

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dew said:

tracers are emitted from your eyes apparently, so at the moment of impact of the bfg projectile you need to bury your face into cybie's crotch and let it all out. two full ballsack hits and he goes down reliably every time. nothing random about it, just a frontal dash into his lap, no sliding off, no dodging rockets during impact. also sorry for the horrible imagery.


I always thought the tracers emit out of BFG. :S



Wait for a certain moment between shot of first and second rocket when you push the trigger (in a semi-close distance). The ball should come out (it is advisable to aim at cyb) during firing of his third rocket. Then pull of a bit of dodging maneuver, dodging the third rocket and approaching cyb to the face-to-face distance.

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A one-shot kill of a mastermind is actually unlikely with vanilla behaviour (even in ideal conditions, unless you have very tight control over positioning), whereas a two-shot kill of a cyber should be fairly guaranteeable (short of very bad luck with the blockmap positioning) with sufficient skill and practice. See some of Belial's slaughter demos for examples (he's not the only one to have mastered the technique, but some of his demos provide nice clear examples, and he has often tackled maps where this is relevant).

The main point to understand is that most of the power of the BFG is in the tracers, and that they emanate from the player just after the ball explodes and in the same direction as the ball was fired (it doesn't matter which way you're facing - they come out of your ass rather than your eyes if you have turned 180 degrees since firing!). The closer you are to the cyber, the more likely it is to get a maximum dose of the 40 tracers. Note that the cyber is narrower than the spider, so you need to be closer to get as many tracers to hit.

Anders worked out that the maximum total damage from the 40 tracers is 2728, and the mimimum is 2639.

Just to clarify, if you fire the ball in a northerly direction at the cyber, and then stand right next to him on the eastern side, your tracers will miss, whether you are looking at him or not, and he will be alive and well even after two fireballs have hit him square in the nutsack.

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dew said:

bury your face into cybie's crotch and let it all out. two full ballsack hits and he goes down reliably every time. also sorry for the horrible imagery.


Replace "crotch" with "butt", "ballsack" with "sweet ass crack cheecks" and I'll forgive you.

In any case, according to the wiki, even assuming that EVERYTHING connects and hits there's still a damage spread that can range from 2700 to 3500 HP, so the absolute minimum to kill a cyber is two hits, if all 40 tracers connect. With just 20 tracers + big ball, you may need up to 3 shots.

The best thing would be to use it against multiple cybers so that you don't waste tracers and you don't need to do the crotch/ass burying thing.

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Is it true or coincidence that "I'm too young to die" increases the BFG power against bosses?

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I don't see any reference to skill level or particular monsters in this function:

//
// A_BFGSpray
// Spawn a BFG explosion on every monster in view
//
void A_BFGSpray (mobj_t* mo) 
{
    int            i;
    int            j;
    int            damage;
    angle_t        an;
    
    // offset angles from its attack angle
    for (i=0 ; i<40 ; i++)
    {
    an = mo->angle - ANG90/2 + ANG90/40*i;

    // mo->target is the originator (player)
    //  of the missile
    P_AimLineAttack (mo->target, an, 16*64*FRACUNIT);

    if (!linetarget)
        continue;

    P_SpawnMobj (linetarget->x,
             linetarget->y,
             linetarget->z + (linetarget->height>>2),
             MT_EXTRABFG);
    
    damage = 0;
    for (j=0;j<15;j++)
        damage += (P_Random()&7) + 1;

    P_DamageMobj (linetarget, mo->target,mo->target, damage);
    }
}

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Then it must be placebo. I was no-clipping into spiderdemons on I'm too young to die and I was nearly constantly destroying them in single BFG shots. I tried doing the same thing in UV to less avail. But it must have been my imagination playing tricks.

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Sounds like my time-long belief that the Archvile didn't resurrect its own kills, based on a SINGLE game where it just happened to walk through corpses which it had killed itself, without it deciding to re-animate them, but instead going for me.

Of course, it just happened that way there and then, but is not a rule of the game.

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Phobus said:

there was either some change in ZDooms code that made this possible

As I understand it, Zdoom doesn't use Doom's PRNG (pseudo random number generator). Whether its random number generator is truly random enough ever to deliver the theoretical maximum of 4800 damage from the 40 tracers, I don't know (those more intimately familiar with Zdoom can no doubt shed light on this). But if it is "more random" than Doom's PRNG, then a one-shot kill might at least be feasible in Zdoom, as this will spread out the distribution function. Of course, you only need 3200 total damage from the tracers that hit the cyber if the fireball does 800 damage.

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Grazza said:

Anders worked out that the maximum total damage from the 40 tracers is 2728, and the mimimum is 2639...

From what I can see (with prBoom+ complevel 2) the maximum damage from the tracers may actually be a bit higher (2759) and minimum a bit lower (2628) because there is another call to P_Random besides the extra one he mentioned. I've posted a demo showing a cybie taking 3559 (2759 + 800) damage.

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printz said:

Is it true or coincidence that "I'm too young to die" increases the BFG power against bosses?

Nope. What is does give you is half damage for the player, and double ammo for pickups.

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