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jerrysheppy

Idea: 75monster. (Map included!) (Updated Jan. 20 with another map)

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I decided to make a map around a theme or constraint, or whatever you want to call it, of having exactly 75 monsters--no more, no less.

This idea originally came about when I was playing one of the 1024 compilations and realizing that some mappers responded to the spatial restriction by seeing how many monsters they could have teleport into the playing area, or shoot into it from outside, over the course of the map--sometimes literally multiple hundreds of monsters. Which is perfectly legitimate, and I'm not trying to say that these somehow violate the 'spirit' of 1024 maps, because the spirit of 1024 maps is just to do what the hell you want with those 1024 square map units. What I did decide to try and do was brainstorm up a theme that would really work if one wanted to make consistently 'bite-sized' Doom levels. The simplest solution seemed to be to specify a certain (low) number of monsters. One could make a laid-back map with the monsters spread out, like the original Doom 1 maps, or a tighter blastfest with hard monsters and hard fights, somewhat like Plutonia's smaller maps. Originally I thought 50 sounded good, but I eventually bumped it up to 75. Maybe other numbers would work better. Comments on this, or on how the idea works in general, would be welcome.

Anyway, I made a map.

It's for Ultimate Doom because that's what I felt like mapping for when I decided to give this a try, and it's in an Episode 1 style most of the way through, though I wouldn't claim it feels exactly like an Episode 1 map. No skill levels; I'd like to try implementing skill levels by swapping harder monsters out for easier ones to keep the total count at 75, but in this case I was trying to stick with Episode 1 monsters (with one thematic exception) and that didn't give me as much to work with.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/58xk13d8zw6cyxx/75m1-jer.zip

I recommend playing in PrBoom or ZDoom; it seems to play in Chocolate Doom without crashing but there are some bugs, detailed in the text file, that I'm not quite sure of the causes for. One of these impacts gameplay in a noticeable way, so I wouldn't recommend it.

Play it and let me know what you think! I'll likely make more, time and inspiration permitting, and if anyone else feels like making a 75-monster map, you can post it in this thread. :)

EDIT: Here's the second map. This one is an E2-styled map that runs on E2M8 and features difficulty settings.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/8b9lb6ymyav7bnm/75m2-jer.zip

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I think each map should have exactly 100 monsters, 100 items and 100 secrets so that the score at the end works both as a percentage and as a total. :p


(100 secrets per map would probably drive people insane, though.)

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This sounds like a good idea to bone up people's skills not to Zerg-swarm the maps with monsters everywhere and try to do better with less.

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The 100 secrets thing would actually be cool. Create the map with the idea that it's more like puzzle solving and each secret has a difficulty. There could be easy, medium, hard, and genius level secrets or something. 40 Easy, 30 Medium, 20 Hard, 10 Whatever you decide the final crazy difficulty is.

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I played the map, and it was very good, but for some reason I wasn't able to find one of the secrets.

The concept of a 75 monster megawad seems interesting, but the limitations seem a little too loose. Maybe exactly 75 monsters, 50 items, and 10 secrets?

I think it would be interesting for there to be a project with only a certain number of textures or flats used per map.

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Processingcontrol said:

I played the map, and it was very good, but for some reason I wasn't able to find one of the secrets.

The concept of a 75 monster megawad seems interesting, but the limitations seem a little too loose. Maybe exactly 75 monsters, 50 items, and 10 secrets?

I think it would be interesting for there to be a project with only a certain number of textures or flats used per map.


I wasn't really intending for this to become a megawad. I mean, I'd be tickled if it did, but I'm in no position to run such a project, plus there are already a few community projects going on.

The monster limit thing was more to have a fixed 'length' of the map. I think the way I put it, 'bite-sized' maps, sums up what I was going for here--a map that you can go through, enjoy, and finish before it feels like it's turning into a slog. I don't think numbers of items or secrets necessarily had the same sort of effect, and textures and flats are something altogether different (though I encourage you to make a separate thread if you want to make maps exploring such a constraint!)

I'm glad you enjoyed my map :)

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didierbertrand said:

good job!lot of fun playing this map,i like "classic" gameplay.
i've done a nm100s run for this map, you'll find it in the miscelleanous demo thead.


I'm flattered! I'll take a look at the demo soon, and thank you (and Walter) for your positive responses. EDIT: Just watched it, very nice demo and it was fun to see how someone else plays one of my maps!

I'm already working on a second map in this vein, this one an Episode 2 style.

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Id be keen to do a 75/70/5 style map.

But what constitues as an item in this case?

And is it a hard 75 or an initial 75 (as in, can Pain Elementals and Archies come out and play too)

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TheMionicDonut said:

Id be keen to do a 75/70/5 style map.

But what constitues as an item in this case?

And is it a hard 75 or an initial 75 (as in, can Pain Elementals and Archies come out and play too)


In my book I'd say 75 initial monsters (including placed Lost Souls even though some engines don't count them) so PEs and Archies are more than welcome.

As for what constitutes an item, that'd be entirely up to you to decide since I'm not worrying about the items or secrets in my maps :)

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I just made a second map in this vein, this one a more Episode 2-styled map, running on E2M8. This time difficulty settings are implemented.

Here's the link: http://www.mediafire.com/file/8b9lb6ymyav7bnm/75m2-jer.zip

Not sure if I'll make any more soon since I have other work to focus on. I think that if/when I make more maps I'll make the next one for Doom 2, since limiting monsters feels like more of a restriction in a modern Doom 2 pwad than in a classic Doom 1-style map.

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I loved both these maps, it's very rare that maps with such a small monster count and minimal detail can feel like such an adventure. I'm starting to understand what you mean about doing more with less. The E2 one especially kicked ass! Could easily be used for "Doom the way ID did". Good work dude. ;)

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A 75 Monsters map shouldn't feature Archviles and Pain Elementals, 'cause they can affect the maximum population of the map.

jerrysheppy said:

It's for Ultimate Doom [...]

Whether you'll ever make a Doom2/Plutonia/TNT sequel.

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Thanks for the kind words, Death :) I was definitely trying to go for the classic feel in both maps, even if I wasn't nitpicking myself in the way the DTWID folks are (not to disparage their project; I'm looking forward to playing it) so I'm happy I succeeded.

Playing through Zeta Labs again since I uploaded it, I've noticed that there are a few too many secret sectors due to my marking them sloppily, and also that you can see the final area on the map before the "reveal." If I make an idgames release or whatever, I'll have to fix those things.

Cell said:

A 75 Monsters map shouldn't feature Archviles and Pain Elementals, 'cause they can affect the maximum population of the map.

Whether you'll ever make a Doom2/Plutonia/TNT sequel.


Again, as I've said, it's more of a mapping constraint than a strict gameplay rule. Which is why I believe that AVs and PEs are perfectly kosher. But since I'm not collecting maps for a megawad or anything, things are flexible if anyone wants to make their own maps in this spirit.

And as I've said, if/when I make more "75" maps, I'll probably do the next one in the Doom2 engine, but that won't be for a little while at least because I have other non-Doom work to attend to.

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Interesting coincidence, I just played Map05 of Whitemare, which on HMP has exactly 75 monsters (at the end; there were a couple of Arch-Viles but I don't think they revived anything) and it's pretty much exactly what I have in mind here: looks pretty and atmospheric, difficult in parts, but never feels like you're grinding along and ends before it starts to wear thin.

Obviously has nothing to do with my 'project' outside of this coincidence, but I thought it was neat :) In fact, a lot of the Whitemare maps so far are in the spirit of what I was going for here, even if they don't meet the monster count exactly.

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Strange concept imho, but maps itself are very pleasant and has the true vanilla feeling. Initially I even consider them as true mid-90 wads, because I got the files from different place and don't look to txt.

Hope you will test the final release in Chocolate too, because small visual bugs exists here and there.

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wow that was super fun!


I only played the first one, will play the second one at some point...before I even read that you included difficulty levels I was wondering about that... did you replace any monsters with higher level/more deadly ones? Or did you just change the health and whatnot?

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Oh hi you guys, thanks for the replies. I haven't been able to check the DW forums very often in the past week or two. Glad to hear you enjoyed them. I'll see what I can do to test future releases in Chocolate as well, but I don't promise anything because frankly even when i see the bugs in vanilla/Chocolate I'm often not sure how to fix them (i.e. the bugs I noted in the text file for the Episode 1 map).

As stated, only the Episode 2 map so far uses difficulty settings, and there, yes, I did move around powerups, swap monsters for weaker ones, etc. For example, on Ultra-Violence there's one fight that includes four Barons of Hell where on skill 1 it would be one Baron and three weaker monsters, the rocket launcher takes longer to get, medikits have been replaced with stimpacks or removed altogether, and so on and so forth.

I'm honestly not sure when I'll have the time to make more and what form I will take. I sort of want to do a quick Doom 2 take on the theme because it would feel more like a restriction (whereas 75 monsters isn't that far off for many of the id Doom 1 maps) but most of my inspiration lately seems to be for the Ultimate Doom.

But thank you for posting to let me know your feedback!

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