how long will doom last?

[Jeremy]

One more thing..

I dont think that even the community will die any time soon.

I registered here in 2000, now 11 years ago. That was 7 years after Doom, 6 after Doom II, and 4 after Doom 64.

Now it has been 18 years after Doom, 17 after Doom II and 15 after Doom 64.

Back then, these forums were active, but with countable members, and open source coding was JUST taking off. I mean, we had DoomGL and the start of Doom Legacy.. and there had not yet been any ports of Doom other than the official ones.

Now there are HUNDREDS of people in these forums, uncountable source ports and utilities, and it has been ported to just about everything that can possibly play Doom, even things that shouldnt play Doom..

The community is thriving more today than ever, so, its innevitable death will at least be a long ways off. No need to stock the bomb shelter.

[Maes]

You may wish to exclude stuff like "ZX Spectrum" or "TI 88" from that list though. They may be "recreations" or "Doom clones" or "look alikes", but not actual source ports, since they are not based on the released source code and they are not able to use original IWAD/PWAD resources directly.

Wikipedia exluded them long ago from the list of "ports" on the grounds that they are recreations/generic Maze War-like games with the name Doom slapped on top of them,

There are however legimitate ports to devices capable of actually using the original C code AND the original IWAD data after some adaptations, like microcontrollers, programmable cameras etc. In general, if it has a C compiler, enough RAM and a screen output, it can at least run a fork of linuxdoom v1.10. If it doesn't, you can at most mimick Doom using something else.

The absolute minimum for a true source port that works would be an Amiga 1200 with (I think) 2 or 4 MB of RAM. It actually runs better on ARM-based microcontrollers hooked to a mobile phone screen.

[DuckReconMajor]

printz said:

I wonder how is it seen by the outside people (inb4 Maes starting to comment how all of us are nerds).

Deluded fanboys is more like it.

[Porsche Monty]

Maes said:

The absolute minimum for a true source port that works would be an Amiga 1200 with (I think) 2 or 4 MB of RAM. It actually runs better on ARM-based microcontrollers hooked to a mobile phone screen.

A stock A1200? not a chance in hell. Sure you can make it "work" as in "can be executed" but that's about it. No accelerators, no Doom.

14mhz - too slow
AGA = planar = too slow
4mb = already on the verge of usability

[Chrispaks]

One interesting thing is how it seems to be handed down in families. Online I see people saying "my bro played this and showed it to me". Haven't had any of my friends play nor stick with Doom though :(

[Maes]

Porsche Monty said:

A stock A1200? not a chance in hell. Sure you can make it "work" as in "can be executed" but that's about it.

Yup, that's exactly what I meant. The minimum possible platform where you can execute a source port that is indeed able to use IWAD data. This automatically excludes machines with less than 4 MB of working RAM, if we exclude ROM-based storage as in the cartridge-based console versions (they have barely enough RAM to keep game and object state).

As to what is playable...depends. I used to find a 486 DX/40 playable, some used to consider a 386 SX/25 playable (quite on the low end actually), while some will just barf at the prospect of playing something not running at 35 fps fixed and not in "high detail" mode. Also, I finished both Ultimate Doom and Doom II with 4 MB of RAM, but yeah with 8 things were A LOT smoother, especially with large PWAD levels.

But even if we restrict the requirement to "executable" the lowly A1200 is easily the lowest end (actually, it's pretty much like a low-end 386 SX/16 with a very slow VGA, due to the planar display).

Lower than that, and you simply don't have enough computrons to fire it up without heavy modifications to the engine and even to the data.

IMO, there are two thin lines that separate source ports into categories:

• Source ports proper that can use the original data with no modifications (and the A1200 is the lowest end in that category)
  
• Weird beasts like the 32x or SNES versions that manage to be based off the original code but with heavy modifications to it AND to the data
  
• Completely unrelated recreations like e.g. "Doom" for TI-88, ZX Spectrum etc.
  
• There might be a fourth category of game engines that can use Doom's data without being based in the least bit on id's code, but these are very rare, and might not even be FPS games.
  

[iHaveToPee]

I think that within 20-30 years the doom community will be much bigger, it will be much easier to build maps allthought that doom builder 2 is easy and comfortable enough.
I think and hope that in several years another IWAD will be developed and that people will continue to build great and unique megawads such as scythe, plutonia2, av, hr2 etc.

[General Rainbow Bacon]

As long as there are computers Doom will continue.

[Maes]

Another side-project I have in mind -after I get Mocha relatively usable (and I am done with my MSc, of course) is to create some way to generate Doom levels in original ways, e.g. based on images, height maps, or even fractals and neural networks.

[elic]

DoomHero85 said:

As long as there are computers Doom will continue.

Well for all we know computers may become obsolete in the future and get replaced by some new king of technology, sort of like how Ipods are replacing radios. sort of like how...

...forget it.

[Maes]

But iPods are computers. Really poor example.

And exactly how does a portable music storage device replace a broadcasting technology under all aspects? Reminds me of this. Unless you can give every last bazaar's gypsy an iPod in place of his battered chinese boombox ;-)

[Maes]

From http://www.smbc-comics.com/

[Porsche Monty]

Maes said:

Another side-project I have in mind -after I get Mocha relatively usable (and I am done with my MSc, of course) is to create some way to generate Doom levels in original ways, e.g. based on images, height maps, or even fractals and neural networks.

How about based on sounds? there's so much to a mere waveform the possibilities are nothing less of exciting.

[Varis Alpha]

You mean like, having a bunch of random sounds play and then it generates it to a functional Doom level?

[Maes]

Well, sort of. E.g. a perfect tone would generate a bare circular room, harmonics would distort its shape, and then subsequent sounds would either create new rooms or add detail to the first one, depending on how they are classed. By no means the only approach, but a possible one.

Crating a level by using a bitmap image (or an overlay thereof) must be more natural though. Imagine designing your level with MS paint, then applying a contour photo as a height map, and some other image for things, and see what comes out ;-)

[Porsche Monty]

@Doomhuntress: Not exactly. I mean something more straightforward that works with a single wav file, like a "wav2wad" converter.

[myk]

Quast said:
I seriously don't mean to be a bitch, but have you actually played any classic megawads? Or even some more modern ones? I have a very difficult time believing that anyone could say, hold doom2.wad in higher esteem than the memento mori wads. ID level design is pretty fucking bad tbh. Doom is what it is for one reason only, user created modifications, and will continue to be so in any future that it has.

And there are also (many more) people that don't like DOOM at all. You're something in between. You don't like DOOM but like some of its add-ons. So? Oh wait, what about the billions that don't give a shit about video games in general? That's yet another outwards step. After all that's been said and done, anyone who doesn't understand that there is room and there are reasons for a more purist appreciation of the game is pretty much clueless. Not sharing a preference is a matter of taste, but not knowing about it is a matter of ignorance.

In particular I do hold the two IWADs over the Memento Mori WADs, especially DOOM II. The MMs are cool and I've enjoyed playing them but they're also "more of the same" and somewhat more drawn out to play as a whole. I mean, a speed run of all DOOM II lasts 30 minutes by an expert, and two hours in max mode. Most user made megawads are generally less viable in this respect, and thus less attractive. There are also less reasons and incentives to familiarize oneself enough with PWADs to play them that way or as reiteratively. Thus, in general, the best thing PWADs provide is "new meat" to sustain the "exploratory" side of the game while the IWADs certainly retain their value as replayable level sets.

I'm sure that if I lost all interest in the IWADs, I'd just lose interest in any DOOM levels and in DOOM in general, because my appreciation for the game exceeds levels in particular, and even extends to some levels that are clearly worse than the ones in the IWADs.

PS: Don't forget all your friends think DOOM II is great!

[C30N9]

I don't think it will gonna die. Everytime a guy registers here and usually he will feel the greatness of this site. I talked to new people before and they said that this site looks great. Probably over 100 people would discover the new ages of doom yearly.

If Doom dies it will go to hell of course :P cuz you know, it is hell :).

[yellowmadness54]

or until the CoD kids for some reason invade doom servers and start hyping it every where, bringing there 8 year old "CoD skillz" to the doom games.

Despite its still being played, it is at the wrong hands and technically to me, it'd be dead.



If doom dies, I will die. Nothing is as original as doom or as fun or can offer any where near the same experience.

[C30N9]

yellowmadness54 said:

If doom dies, I will die. Nothing is as original as doom or as fun or can offer any where near the same experience.

There is Serious Sam which is close to it :P

[yellowmadness54]

C30N9 said:

There is Serious Sam which is close to it :P

you know...I've never really played Serious sam.

I should give it a go when my other PC is up and running again.

[Megamur]

C30N9 said:

There is Serious Sam which is close to it :P

In the same way watching movie clips on YouTube at 240p is like watching a movie in IMAX, sure.

(What I'm trying to say is, Serious Sam only has a passing resemblance to DOOM and is really boring.)

[mr fiat]

I'm only 17 and I play doom the most of all games, if someone of my age saw me playing DooM they would usually complain about the graphics or some shit. these same people usually are COD faggs.

[steuntron]

Doom is not just a shooter. You can't really compare it to modern shooters.

Most modern shooters tell a story. And those games offer a cinematic experience. Those games have more in common with movies than with Doom. If you watch a movie, you won't watch it again, unless the movie is very good! I can't play games like Half-Life 2 a second time, even when it's 10 years ago when I finished it.

Because Doom uses 2D sprites, it will stay visually appealing. If Doom used 3D models, it wouldn't be played this much. Ugly 3D doesn't age as well as sprites do. Pixelart is cool. So the visual style of Doom stays good.

Doom is a unique type of game. I would call Doom a gametype.

Doom is much more basic than modern shooters, but it has much more depth.

Aaaaah I love Doom so much. I cant stop playing it, and I never will!

[Lila Feuer]

As long as there's players/mappers/modders/ports etc.

Doom is id's baby, the goldmine of classic FPS, it's going to be extremely hard if not totally impossible to top it.

[geo]

Since its virtually free and free to get content, it'll last forever.

[_bruce_]

Maes said:

Yup, that's exactly what I meant. The minimum possible platform where you can execute a source port that is indeed able to use IWAD data. This automatically excludes machines with less than 4 MB of working RAM, if we exclude ROM-based storage as in the cartridge-based console versions (they have barely enough RAM to keep game and object state).

As to what is playable...depends. I used to find a 486 DX/40 playable, some used to consider a 386 SX/25 playable (quite on the low end actually), while some will just barf at the prospect of playing something not running at 35 fps fixed and not in "high detail" mode. Also, I finished both Ultimate Doom and Doom II with 4 MB of RAM, but yeah with 8 things were A LOT smoother, especially with large PWAD levels.

But even if we restrict the requirement to "executable" the lowly A1200 is easily the lowest end (actually, it's pretty much like a low-end 386 SX/16 with a very slow VGA, due to the planar display).

Lower than that, and you simply don't have enough computrons to fire it up without heavy modifications to the engine and even to the data.

IMO, there are two thin lines that separate source ports into categories:

• Source ports proper that can use the original data with no modifications (and the A1200 is the lowest end in that category)
  
• Weird beasts like the 32x or SNES versions that manage to be based off the original code but with heavy modifications to it AND to the data
  
• Completely unrelated recreations like e.g. "Doom" for TI-88, ZX Spectrum etc.
  
• There might be a fourth category of game engines that can use Doom's data without being based in the least bit on id's code, but these are very rare, and might not even be FPS games.
  

Well put!