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Hand X

101% kills on psx doom?!

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Hand X said:

Lost souls from PEs counts as an extra kill?

Ok, now I saw everything.


I would love to see the reasoning behind why they shouldn't, explained.

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Hand X said:

Lost souls from PEs counts as an extra kill?

Ok, now I saw everything.


No, but monsters resurrected by Arch-Viles do - and can let the kill percentage go above 100 if the engine you use has no compensation for it.

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Dragonsbrethren said:

Actually, lost souls do count in PSX Doom. I guess they never bothered removing the count kill flag when they merged in the new stuff for Doom 2.

so I was right?

huh, well thats a first.

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I always thought Lost Souls do count extra even in Doom 2?

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It depends on the port. They didn't in vanilla. Just a lazy "fix" for the killcount problem, though it didn't help much in the viles' case.

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Hmm...I had to pull out my old copy of the infamous 1994 doom2.exe dated 6-25-1994, thinking that perhaps it, being hacked & pirated and all, actually didn't apply this fix.

Well, turns out that it too doesn't count lost souls as extra kills. Perhaps my memory is being tricked by seeing scores >100% in levels where there were BOTH PEs and Archviles (come to think of it, most levels with PEs also have Archviles, so it might have led me to incorrectly correlate the infated kills. I also remember that e.g. ZDoom has an option not to correct for those kills, thus easily getting >1000% kills in levels spammed with PEs.

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Considering the kill % is supposed to represent the percentage of the *starting population for the map* that were killed by player, killing more monsters than that is logically more than 100%.

This is not a "glitch," it's logical. You can "fix" it if you want, but that's no different than "fixing" a lot of other things in DOOM.

Personally, IMO ZDoom's behavior with the kill counter during intermissions is totally illogical. For example, getting slower and slower to tick up the count the higher the actual kill count is above 100%. What's the point of that? It's certainly not informative. At least the original behavior gave you both an idea of how much overkill you had to do AND something interesting to watch while listening to all those gunshots.

Anyway... this is probably a glitch in the PSX version specifically, since it was based on JagDoom which really screwed up some of the engine's internals in an effort to make it run on such a primitive platform. Probably an enemy was somehow counted twice.

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Maes said:

I always thought Lost Souls do count extra even in Doom 2?

The MF_COUNTKILL flag was removed from them in v1.666.

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Yeah I remember getting more than a hundred percent kills on the PSX, and also in Doom95. I thought it was normal...

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I got around 269% kills once at Command Center on PSX Doom when I was screwing around with God Mode and Monster Infighting. The game just counts each lost soul from a PE as a completely different monster. I've figured that 1% over 100 = 1 Lost Soul from a PE, but I could be wrong. PSX Doom is awesome though, I play it more than the PC version. :)

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Quasar said:

Anyway... this is probably a glitch in the PSX version specifically, since it was based on JagDoom which really screwed up some of the engine's internals in an effort to make it run on such a primitive platform. Probably an enemy was somehow counted twice.

I don't think it's a matter of "really screwing up some of the engine's internals" so much as a simple oversight when they merged in the stuff for Doom 2. Remember, JagDoom is based on 1.2 and lost souls counted as kills up until 1.666.

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Mattfrie1 said:

I got around 269% kills once at Command Center on PSX Doom when I was screwing around with God Mode and Monster Infighting. The game just counts each lost soul from a PE as a completely different monster. I've figured that 1% over 100 = 1 Lost Soul from a PE, but I could be wrong. PSX Doom is awesome though, I play it more than the PC version. :)


I dont like the music or soundeffects...or the over all look.

The atmosphere doesnt match...well it does but doesnt feel doomy.

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Isn't Command Center a DOOM 1 level? Did they just indiscriminately add Doom II monsters to the DOOM 1 levels?

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Quasar said:

Isn't Command Center a DOOM 1 level? Did they just indiscriminately add Doom II monsters to the DOOM 1 levels?

Yes. There's a chaingun guy and a pain elemental in E1M1. :)

It kinda screws balance since you're not supposed to get a chaingun so soon; the first is in a secret of E1M2.

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Quasar said:

Isn't Command Center a DOOM 1 level? Did they just indiscriminately add Doom II monsters to the DOOM 1 levels?

Command Center actually has two or three Pain Elementals in the maze section.

Edit: Actually, I was thinking of Command Control. Pretty sure Command Center has them too, I just can't place them. Maybe near the exit door.

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Gez said:

Yes. There's a chaingun guy and a pain elemental in E1M1. :)

It kinda screws balance since you're not supposed to get a chaingun so soon; the first is in a secret of E1M2.


This thing was meant to be played with joystickz, which is even worse than keyboardz only.

Bad strafe, bad turning...

If analog worked as it's name suggest, I would keep my mouth (liar, fingers) shut.

But I think it's much better than the PC version overall. Colour sectors, more challenging than PC's, better graphics, etc..

Off-topic: Anyone know if modifying this game (the PSX one) is possible? I mean things like maps, maybe musics, SFX...

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OK then. Most probably, Lost Souls count for kills because PSX Doom is indirectly based off of DOOM v1.2, and not v1.666.

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Quasar said:

Considering the kill % is supposed to represent the percentage of the *starting population for the map* that were killed by player, killing more monsters than that is logically more than 100%.



... but that logic is thrown out of the window the second that script-based spawning of new monsters is added into the picture.

It's also deceiving because 100% kills does not mean you got everything.

Personally. I prefer a x/y display for the kill ratio anyway instead of percentage.

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Graf Zahl said:

Personally. I prefer a x/y display for the kill ratio anyway instead of percentage.

I hear you on that. Heretic had it right.

Although display of the numbers gets more difficult when we have maps coming out with 5000 monsters ;) Numbers might go right off the screen.

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Quasar said:

Personally, IMO ZDoom's behavior with the kill counter during intermissions is totally illogical.


I agree with this too. Skulltag for example has a dmflag for coop in which you can make it so that you need a required kill percentage to exit the map, otherwise the exit switch teleports you to a player start.

Respawned or resurrected monsters in ZDoom/Skulltag count as added monsters to the total so if the kill percentage required to exit the map was 100%, completing any map on Nightmare mode would be impossible. I also thought it would be really fun to play maps on survival coop on Nightmare and have the kill percentage required to finish the map something like 300% so that each monster needed to be killed three or more times in order to complete it. People in the skulltag community get mad when I talk though.

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Graf Zahl said:

Well, sure. I'm sure you deliberately programmed that to account for large kill counts, which is what I would do as well. Actually I'm not even sure what I was thinking about now, so never mind >_>

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Gez said:

Yes. There's a chaingun guy and a pain elemental in E1M1. :)

It kinda screws balance since you're not supposed to get a chaingun so soon; the first is in a secret of E1M2.


But there is an addition of monsters to, doom 2 monster is early episode 1 maps, and the nightmare specter.. You can only get those on ultra violence i believe, it can get pretty tough!

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Hand X said:

But I think it's much better than the PC version overall. Colour sectors, more challenging than PC's, better graphics, etc..


No no and no. Colored sectors look lame, levels are simplified, textures in Ultimate Doom are cut, (making E1 look like a stone castle), no iconic Doom music, no iconic Doom sounds (where's my Caco blurpblurpblurp?), no archie, no Romero head on a stick, no nuthin'...

PC Doom > PSX Doom. Deal with it :P

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