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neubejiita

Quake 2 level design.

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http://bejiitaswrath.com/maps/quake38.jpg

This level design is quite awesome IMO, the nukage river on a viaduct under the bridge and more nukage underneath. This map makes good use of the 3D architecture possible with the Quake2 engine, and I think the atmosphere and overall feel of this map is the best of all the Quake2 maps. I hope that Doom4 has maps with such an awesome feel and not shitty dark Doom3 maps instead. If Quake2 can have large light areas like in this screen capture, then Doom4 can as well. And would a Doom game using the Quake2 engine work or not? I guess you could not have huge DV-II maps but you could have maps like E1M7 easily, but with 3D areas like this.

What do you think? Doom4 map ideas ITT.

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Quake 3/Live has by far some of the best 3D level design I've seen. Quake 2 is (from what I've been told) quite limited in terms of complexity in the maps because of limits.

But yes, Quake 2 has some pretty good level design throughout. Shame it's so damn easy. The XP packs are better in difficulty but have downright shit levels.

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The design of that map is ok, but compared to what we do now it looks ancient. The courtyard is especially too small. If that's as big as things get in Doom 4, I will be severely disappointed.

In Doom 4, I want to see levels that can compare to Industrial Zone and Downtown. It wouldn't hurt to see something in there like the Citadel, too.

Doom 4 needs to back away from the science fiction part of doom a bit and get more into the B-Movie horror side. Why not have the doomguy storm a cathedral and stomp through a zombie infested suburb like he used to? He can always then smash some demon butt on the moon. No more of this "I'm not scared of this demon invasion, but I am. Now I will single-handedly save mars from destruction, but not without pretending I'm frightened to pieces." He's a total bad ass, he needs to act like it!

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The design of that room looks rather clunky to me. It's probably because I can't help but notice the oddly shaped architecture and how the textures are not being used nearly to the best of their ability.

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Not sure i know the correct terminology but its interesting how a level with that same designed would be different now adays. I think the term is bump mapping, which would be applied to the walls would give it automatic detail, which instantly increases the details of said level.

Its something i've been noticing as time goes on. Level designer seems to have to less and less when it comes to certain details as the artist and modelers seems to have already built that into the materials themselves.

You look at something like that compared to the doom engines we use. Walls and floors are flat, so to keep up with how tech look now a days, we have to detail our own walls, or it kind of gets shuned for being "under the detail par".

So basically i would believe such architecture from that shot could look completely different and yet still be the same and probably better fitting in todays technology.

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It definitely still has that cramped feel that plagues everything using Quake's engine. Square courtyards are overused in Quake, Quake II and Hexen II. Half-Life worked around it well by tailoring the setting better.

The design of that place, and incidentally half the game, disappoints me.They had an engine that could do some nice lighting and they came up with most maps being mostly lit in diffuse orange. There is so little shadowing happening there that it could be a shot from a DOOM port.

There is also the matter of the odd placement of little point lights everywhere. The ones on the dirt by the nukage really stand out. The sky isn't making that extra light and that part of the area is empty so why are the lights there? Leave them out and use the gain in detail to put some light fixtures in the corridor on the left so it looks less silly. Same goes for the lights shining on the underside of the bridge.

I do like all the angled pieces and the use of bridges. I even like the odd-looking buttress-like arch things on the right.

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Khorus said:

Quake 3/Live has by far some of the best 3D level design I've seen. Quake 2 is (from what I've been told) quite limited in terms of complexity in the maps because of limits.

The limits are in detail, much like Doom. Not in 3d architecture.

40oz said:

The design of that room looks rather clunky to me. It's probably because I can't help but notice the oddly shaped architecture and how the textures are not being used nearly to the best of their ability.

It was made some time in 1997-98

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I've always liked Q2 and its levels, I don't know, they have that something. Kinda clean and unkempt at the same time and somewhat alien. Q1 not so much. The theme overall is vague and the palette is 80% brown (the rest is washed-out blue.)

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neubejiita said:

http://bejiitaswrath.com/maps/quake38.jpg

This level design is quite awesome IMO, the nukage river on a viaduct under the bridge and more nukage underneath. This map makes good use of the 3D architecture possible with the Quake2 engine, and I think the atmosphere and overall feel of this map is the best of all the Quake2 maps. I hope that Doom4 has maps with such an awesome feel and not shitty dark Doom3 maps instead. If Quake2 can have large light areas like in this screen capture, then Doom4 can as well. And would a Doom game using the Quake2 engine work or not? I guess you could not have huge DV-II maps but you could have maps like E1M7 easily, but with 3D areas like this.

What do you think? Doom4 map ideas ITT.


haha, I recorded gameplay of this map. I remember this one.

I like the sandboxy feel to quake2.

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hervoheebo said:

I've always liked Q2 and its levels, I don't know, they have that something. Kinda clean and unkempt at the same time and somewhat alien. Q1 not so much. The theme overall is vague and the palette is 80% brown (the rest is washed-out blue.)

what I like about quake 2 (and most dos games for that matter) is how you come across boss fights like normal enemies.

I mean, I have fought 5-6 tanks in a single map, and that HUGE sabboath looking guy twice.

I love the enemy design in quake 2. Easily some of the coolest enemies ever.

Quake 4 kinda killed the effect, it was decent, though.

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kristus said:

It was made some time in 1997-98


Is that supposed to excuse what I just said?

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40oz said:

Is that supposed to excuse what I just said?


People didnt have the same standards back then as they do now, things like detail wasn't as important, if you need evidence then just look at some of the 1994 doom wads compared the stuff being made today.

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40oz said:

Is that supposed to excuse what I just said?

What do you think of the level of detail in Doom e3m1?

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I love Quake II's level design. It has some great bits and really, the odd aspects don't exactly irritate me, considering the fact that it doesn't need to be what one would expect -- it's an alien planet even.

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Lorenzo said:

BTW, is there any good source port for playing Quake 2 under window 7?


Try this.

http://forums.gamespy.com/quake_2_discussion/b50014/20195324/p1/?3

And the KM Quake II Source port. With Doom3 HUD!

http://kmq2.quakedev.com/

See how you go. I just gave KMQuake 2 a play with wine, and it runs extremely well, I would definitely choose that one, it is Quake2 v3.23 and it has raised limits for map editing, like with Boom.

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Spleen said:

What do you think of the level of detail in Doom e3m1?


I don't know what he thinks, but I think it looks like crap, even for a 1993 game. Most of E3 does. I played it far less than the others.

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