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yellowmadness54

doom is really becoming unenjoyable online

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It would be fun, but all these random people are coming out of nowhere who are clearly new, or apperent trolls.

Now someone did make a post (now in hell) about bad bans over zdaemon, and I witnessed exactly what he is talking about.

For about a half an hour in a game, this person kept joining attempting over and over and over to vote kick another from a server, and every time the vote whore got kicked, he joined right back in with a barely different name and kept on trying to kick the guy.

If its not that, its the people sitting there watching teleporters until you go in for the simple joy of telefragging you.

But my favorite is the "wow another fucking server without mouse aim! *rage quits" guy.

Every coop server is going to have one of these guys join and rant endlessly on the mouse aiming or the enability to mouse aim.

Now I love coop, and I dont want to stop ANY time soon, but with all these people its becoming a problem. Was it always like this?

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irc.oftc.net #odamex for most awesome coop. Skulltag is also good for coop. Zdaemon is good with every other gamemode, but coop tends to get griefers much more often.

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For starters, stay away from "popular" coop servers, where newbies tend to congregate. They often have no manners, experience, or maturity to be any fun to play with. In particular, stay away from that spammy dbzone crap. There is at least one server I know of where friendly fire and telefragging will occur, and this is only because those associated with the server (the owner, and those with remote control) want to piss you off. They do this by running an outdated server version that does not disable these nuisances in public games. Don't play on these servers! (You can check the server version in the detailed info dialog when you right-click a server in the list).

Make friends, play with people you know, get to know the people that run your favorite servers. It helps to have people who have your back. This is the internet, son. Be prepared to encounter a shitload of people that want to make your life miserable. Never feed the trolls, though. If you paint yourself bright red, expect the bull to put it's horn straight up your butthole.

That said, if you really do like ZDaemon, you might be interested in ZDaemon Sessions (ZDS). Every Saturday night you can join one of the ZDS servers, and play with cool people that aren't going to ruin the game. I've been to dozens of these and aside from a lack of interest every now and then, I've enjoyed myself immensely.

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EarthQuake said:

For starters, stay away from "popular" coop servers, where newbies tend to congregate. They often have no manners, experience, or maturity to be any fun to play with. In particular, stay away from that spammy dbzone crap. There is at least one server I know of where friendly fire and telefragging will occur, and this is only because those associated with the server (the owner, and those with remote control) want to piss you off. They do this by running an outdated server version that does not disable these nuisances in public games. Don't play on these servers! (You can check the server version in the detailed info dialog when you right-click a server in the list).

Make friends, play with people you know, get to know the people that run your favorite servers. It helps to have people who have your back. This is the internet, son. Be prepared to encounter a shitload of people that want to make your life miserable. Never feed the trolls, though. If you paint yourself bright red, expect the bull to put it's horn straight up your butthole.

That said, if you really do like ZDaemon, you might be interested in ZDaemon Sessions (ZDS). Every Saturday night you can join one of the ZDS servers, and play with cool people that aren't going to ruin the game. I've been to dozens of these and aside from a lack of interest every now and then, I've enjoyed myself immensely.


No, I mean just the insane amount of ban evaders and kids always starting up flame wars.

Its both zdaemon and skulltag.
Infact on skulltag, two kids out of nowhere join and start talking shit to one of the devs of the mega game wad, starting a huge debate and then attempting the vote kick.

I have alot of friends on zdaemon, but on skulltag i am friends with people but my list gets deleted every time i exit :(

Ik doom wasn't like this before when I had skull and zdaemon back in october, the only problems I had being with stupid FFA and modes like that (honestly doom FFA is just out righ annoying and pisses me off)

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I used to be a heavy ZDaemon user but it's gotten so bad that a server with team kill or a wad that has a fucking teleport is a troll haven.

EarthQuake said:

stay away from that spammy dbzone crap. There is at least one server I know of where friendly fire and telefragging will occur, and this is only because those associated with the server (the owner, and those with remote control) want to piss you off.

Yes, the guy that runs that server is an asshole.

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Ladna said:

vote-kick is the worst thing that ever happened to online gaming.

It's a double edged sword. If the majority of the players are decent, it can serve justice. If they are all assholes, the few good players get the shaft.

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Technician said:

Yes, the guy that runs that server is an asshole.

Heh, that guy has banned me twice. First we had no idea he was an the admin and we tried to votekick him. Then later it he was pulling his usual crap so I decided to go 1-on-1 with him. When he realized I was beating him he banned me again.

The last time I ever saw him on that server he'd figured out how to godmode himself. What an asshole.

Other than that, though, I do find it quite amusing trying to thwart their schemes. I've broken through teleport spams and fought the griefers off to let others through. Lots of fun.

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Jesus, online playing seems like such a dumb, pointless way of spending your time. Maybe it would work better if it weren't treated so much as SERIOUS BIZNESS. It's not like you're getting paid or anything. All threads bitching about Skulltag/ZDaemon melodrama are so fun to watch though, so thank you.

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You should see the Quake Live forums and ESR. While in this case it's mostly about Coop. People do take their competitive gaming seriously. And who are you to tell them wrong?

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kristus said:

People do take their competitive gaming seriously.

Why? Do they get paid better the better they play?

I'm pretty sure most cheaters are out there because they like experimenting with a 17 year old game's hackability or are just bored, not because they want to get cheap scores. What would be the point in that?! Trip to Miami?

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printz said:

Why? Do they get paid better the better they play?

$$$$ is not the only reason to do something competitively.

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Enjay said:

$$$$ is not the only reason to do something competitively.


I put the line of doing anything competititively for real when actual prizes, monetary or otherwise (including official recognition), are involved, within a controlled environment with leagues and enforced rules and referees.

Online playing is as competitive as an improvised football match or a street fight: sure, it can be challenging, it can be pretty damn hard and you can make a name for yourself by being pretty damn good at it (moreso than the occasional player/partaker), but you're not actually a competitive player. And just like street fights or improvised football games, you cannot count on guaranteed rules or even elementary fair play and sportsmanship: figuratively speaking, you may go in there looking for a fair, straight fight, and all you'll get will be a bottle getting smashed on the back of your head, or some switchblade lodged between your ribs when you least expect it. Even at the highest levels of the so-called "internet leagues".

Compare e.g. a Karate competition at the Olympic games: you salute, fight, land one hit, the referee yells "point", you salute again, and that was the match. Boring? Maybe, but that's what "competitive" means in the real world.

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printz said:

Why? Do they get paid better the better they play?


Cause they want to win, duh.

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printz said:

Jesus, online playing seems like such a dumb, pointless way of spending your time. Maybe it would work better if it weren't treated so much as SERIOUS BIZNESS. It's not like you're getting paid or anything. All threads bitching about Skulltag/ZDaemon melodrama are so fun to watch though, so thank you.


Because I like to play coop and have a fun experience I payed for by buying doom that some retard has to ruin.

Last night (despite my later befriending this person because he and I calmed down) some guy was going 5000mph spraying rockets and SSG every where and spawn camping every one.

It just ruins the experience, I dont care about winning or loosing, I'd just like to be able to play.

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Then use another port; you might have to get a group of people together specially (i.e. there’s no regular active player base for them), but I think every port out there would support the standard Co-op and DM.

If you want to play ZDoom based wads co-op, you could always try ZDoom or GZdoom themselves; might be a bit of a hassle setting them up via the command line and not having in game joining, but they work.

If you want to play the original Iwads or Vanilla compatible wads in co-op, there’s Doomsday (1.8.6), which is client server based with in game multiplayer setup and in game joining, like the main MP ports. Just remember to change the master server address to http://dengine.net/master.php, as it's moved since 1.8.6 came out.

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TBH, this behavior extends to nearly every online game ever. There's always going to be that subsection of retards trying to bring the game down for everyone else.

It always amazes me how the best Doom source port (Skulltag) has the absolute worst community I've seen. And I'm a CS:S devotee.

On votekicking: Votekicking is a very important tool to have, because the admin isn't always gaurenteed to be on to police the server. I'm much more frustrated by servers that disable it over being votekicked...after all, most bans are only 10 minutes or so.

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If you want to play DM without getting annihilated, you'll need to find some people of similiar skill to play with. DM is a competitive gamemode, so people play to win.

Losing shouldn't be a big deal. You need to learn somehow, and experience is the best teacher.

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yellowmadness54 said:

Last night (despite my later befriending this person because he and I calmed down) some guy was going 5000mph spraying rockets and SSG every where and spawn camping every one.


Unless you specifically agree to play with some rules, you can have no expectations out of a FFA DM.

Actually, if you try complaining to the "perpetrators" you'll just be trolled and flamed to death and be labelled a 'noob' forever. Even if you are entitled to do so. It's an unwritten rule of online playing.

The only things you can do is either quit, suck it down, or eventually acquire enough skill to do what they do, no matter how.

Copying works like a charm, e.g. I spectated some Brit10 game on ZDaemon, and simply copied the patterns of the "Alpha wolf" kind of players. On my next game, I followed the script verbatim, memorizing all their patterns and actions. TA-DAH, I was no more spawncamping bait, but I could do some of my own, thus gaining "respect", if you wish to call it that.

Does that mean that only a handful of tactics work? Yes, and unless specific rules or server perks such as e.g. spawn protection step in, things ain't gonna change. In other games, when a handful of abusive tactics emerge, players eventually start forming leagues or rulesets over which all participant have to agree to. These can be "no rush" rules on RTS, "no spawncamping" on FPS, or whatever may apply more specifically to every case. The problem is that unless such issues are fixed at the source, rules can only be enforced by the players' sportsmanship (...and good luck with that).

Does it mean that, in the end there is not much to the game? Maybe, and that's actually what I'm most worried about when I hear from people not having a good time with a certain game, because that's what ultimately dooms (pardom the pun) multiplayer longevity.

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I enjoy playing online. Even if I lose, as long as it's a good match don't mind. Usually the matches I enjoy the most are the ones where I lose, just barely.

I enjoyed CTF back in the day too, when it was possible to find a pub CTF with players.

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yellowmadness54 said:

Last night (despite my later befriending this person because he and I calmed down) some guy was going 5000mph spraying rockets and SSG every where and spawn camping every one.


Unfortunately that just means you aren't that good. If he can do it, so can you. Get better to beat guys like this, play guys of your own skill level if you get bent out of shape, or just don't play competitive game modes (this is the weak option)!

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I remember a Quake 3 custom map which had the spawn posts arranged so that whoever started a certain run + shoot pattern, would always bag the other players because they simply wouldn't have time to react. The map was one huge oval and it had enough room and distances thought out so that one or two players could act as "cursors" (running around non-stop and spawnfragging). Those two players eventually got enough distance between them to not be a threat to one another (unless they inverted senses) but they were 100% death for all noobs that didn't know the pattern. It was a kind of gameplay resonance, for the lack of a better word.

Amongst 100% knowledgeable players, I don't know how that'd have played out, because either you stuck to the pattern, or you were spawncamp bait. Probably they'd skip the map, in a twisted version of "sportsmanship" (with no noobs around to exploit).

In DM mapsets like Brit10, there are often maps that are viable only if you follow a very specific pattern, all other positions or options are just spam bait. Even if you do follow it, that doesn't mean that you're invincible, but merely at a slightly better attacking position, and less prone to be in one of the spammed spots.

Still, theoretically, if all players were 100% experts at every map, they should sort of queue behind one another and try following the pattern (which is often what does happen).

With such gameplay, usually only execution accuracy and dumb luck can place you higher than other "perfect gamers" such as yourself, and that's probably why often some maps are skipped depending on who's playing at the time (I bet the 'seniors' don't want to waste time in noob-trap maps).

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Ralphis said:

Unfortunately that just means you aren't that good. If he can do it, so can you. Get better to beat guys like this, play guys of your own skill level if you get bent out of shape, or just don't play competitive game modes (this is the weak option)!

Maybe that speed was well beyond the legal limit? :D

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