You will never be free

[ShadyXMR]

You will never be free.

I never liked organized groups and now I have a little logic to back this up.

Being part of a group, any group, and cooperating in it is slavery. Let's back this up a bit, shall we?

You are a fetus in your mother's stomach. You are part of a system that connects you to placenta, umbellical cord, etc. Are you free to do what you want? No, in order to ensure your survival you must remain in this system. Slavery.

You are born, you develop and attain some form of consciousness. You are now a member of a different group, your family. Though you have liberated yourself from the system of the womb, you are now part of the system of a family. You must defend your family, stand up for them, do chores, follow their rules, and at times provide for the collective survival. Are you free to do exactly what you want? No, in order for you to survive (in essence) you must stay with them and subject yourself to their demands at times. Slavery.

You'll probably eventually attend school. Here is an organization, another one that you have graduated to from the family. You have been liberated. But now you are part of the collective body of students, administration, etc. You follow their rules, attempt to become part of the microchasm society there, etc. Are you absolutely free from homework, tests, teachers, bigotry, discrimination, etc? No. Slavery.

For us evil big-bad we-are-blamed-for-the-world's-problems Americans, when we are of 18 years of age we will start paying taxes, start voting, and start working. We are part of mainstream society, part of the government, and part of a company or corporation. You have been liberated from school, but now you are at the government's mercy, must follow "laws", give your money to the government, and be subjected to arbitrary societal customs. Are you free to do what you want? No. Slavery.

It is becoming my belief that freedom is only possible through a dissolution, an annihilation of all organizations. Group work works like this: you must "coordinate" with others who will most likely fuck it up anyways. No freedom there. Even Doomworld or any other "group" online: There are rules to follow, you can't post whatever you want, etc. (This isn't a rant against Doomworld, I thought I'd use it as an example). Freedom? No, it is slavery, and in all of the cases I used the slave owner is, basically, everyone else (or the group itself).

So, why do humans subject themselves to this?

This mindless dribble has been brought to you by Lunar Aaronist Republic Public Information Ministries, .gov. Please leave your sarcastic remarks here.

[Waldon]

Are you free to do what you want? No. Slavery.

If everybody could do what they want you could be killed at the age of five because somebody expressed his freedom that way.
The system is not flawless but it works. You can grow up relatively safely, you have enough food every day, you can earn your living and live with whomever you choose and chooses you. Maybe it's heading towards 1984 slowly but it still works. You gotta look at a shitload of ads but you can still live quite well and in the States you can live one of the most comfortable lives in the world at this moment (average quality of life).
In anarchy nothing defends you. Every time a riot starts in a city, people get hurt quickly and stores get robbed.

[Linguica]

This is so retarded that I won't even waste my time responding to it.

[pritch]

This is so retarded that I won't even waste my time responding to it.

I won't say the obvious... :)

In all honesty this sounds like the sort of stuff I thought of when I was 14, then slapped myself for failing to see the trees for the forest.

[Waldon]

the sort of stuff I thought of when I was 14

Agreed :)

[læmænt]

So, why do humans subject themselves to this?

So, why do you subject yourself to this?

[Lüt]

Even Doomworld or any other "group" online: There are rules to follow, you can't post whatever you want, etc. (This isn't a rant against Doomworld, I thought I'd use it as an example). Freedom? No, it is slavery, and in all of the cases I used the slave owner is, basically, everyone else (or the group itself).

Alright, how about you pay me 100 posts per week to post here? If you make more than 100 legit posts per week, you get to keep the remainder! Sound good? I sure like it.

[læmænt]

Actually shadyXMR is absolutely right, so stop making fun of him. It's quite obvious that individuals' freedom is very limited to satisfy the society. Anyone arguing with that is an idiot.

The question, of course, is: is that good or bad? ShadyXMR only sees the bad sides. That's called "tunnel vision" and is generally undesirable O_o

[ShadyXMR]

the sort of stuff I thought of when I was 14

Please shoot me then for not thinking of things at the exact same age as you.

So, why do you subject yourself to this?

I don't know. If I knew, I wouldn't have posted this in the first place.

Just interesting how people make up bullshit about how they're free just so they never realize that they probably aren't. I never said I had the answer. I thought it could be another "topic" to "discuss".

So, continue the crucifixion. :) :P

[fodders]

You are confusing SLAVERY with other definitions et al:

You are a fetus in your mother's stomach. You are part of a system that connects you to placenta, umbellical cord, etc. Are you free to do what you want? No, in order to ensure your survival you must remain in this system. Slavery.

Not slavery, dependence

You are born, you develop and attain some form of consciousness. You are now a member of a different group, your family. Though you have liberated yourself from the system of the womb, you are now part of the system of a family. You must defend your family, stand up for them, do chores, follow their rules, and at times provide for the collective survival. Are you free to do exactly what you want? No, in order for you to survive (in essence) you must stay with them and subject yourself to their demands at times. Slavery.

Not slavery, loyalty

You'll probably eventually attend school. Here is an organization, another one that you have graduated to from the family. You have been liberated. But now you are part of the collective body of students, administration, etc. You follow their rules, attempt to become part of the microchasm society there, etc. Are you absolutely free from homework, tests, teachers, bigotry, discrimination, etc? No. Slavery.

Not slavery academia

For us evil big-bad we-are-blamed-for-the-world's-problems Americans, when we are of 18 years of age we will start paying taxes, start voting, and start working. We are part of mainstream society, part of the government, and part of a company or corporation. You have been liberated from school, but now you are at the government's mercy, must follow "laws", give your money to the government, and be subjected to arbitrary societal customs. Are you free to do what you want? No. Slavery.

Not slavery DUTY

[læmænt]

not slavery DUTY

Please summarize the differences.

[fodders]

I cannot be arsed really

[læmænt]

Well i don't see any.

[Phoenix]

not slavery DUTY

Please summarize the differences.

/me wonders in again out of boredom, fucking Saturday and no girl!

Duty is what you need to do based on your conscience.
Slavery is what to have to do 'cause someone bought your fucking life, which you don't own anymore, 'cause the slave master got more money than you. Samples. Your boss if you got one. He owns your ass from 9 to 5, tells you what to do, when to do it, how much spending money you get for the month, that determines the size of home you got, the car you drive and the food you eat.
In them god old days, the slave master owned you 24/7/52 for as long as you lived. The only difference being that nowadays you got to commute to your job, while in the good old days room was made for you at the premise of the master’s estade.
As you can tell, I can go for days on this subject ...

[læmænt]

Duty is what you need to do based on your conscience.

Then this:

You have been liberated from school, but now you are at the government's mercy, must follow "laws", give your money to the government, and be subjected to arbitrary societal customs. Are you free to do what you want? No.

is not duty (unless you need to do it based on your conscience, which is certainly not the case with me, and probably with a lot of other people as well), and fodders is wrong.

[Phoenix]

... and fodders is wrong.

Where is your prove?

[læmænt]

read my post

[fodders]

No, you don't get it, your BOSS never owns your ass, you always have the freedom to tell him to go take a flying fuck at himself, his wife and the horse he rode in on,walk out and get another job, or move country, or in the case of any of the listed states of slavery above (apart from the faetus), you can desist, cease or in plain English , just ferking change the situation, you can change schools, or get a private tutor, you can change your family, apply to be adopted or fostered out,or emigrate to another country, you have the freedom to do any of these... hence there is no slavery involved.

[Phoenix]

No, you don't get it, your BOSS never owns your ass, you always have the freedom to tell him to go take a flying fuck at himself, his wife and the horse he rode in on,walk out and get another job, or move country, or in the case of any of the listed states of slavery above (apart from the faetus), you can desist, cease or in plain English , just ferking change the situation, you can change schools, or get a private tutor, you can change your family, apply to be adopted or fostered out,or emigrate to another country, you have the freedom to do any of these... hence there is no slavery involved.

Yes my view is extreme, let me soften it up.
If you depend on a person or group of person for your livelihood you depend on that person. You are not free. To me I am a slave to said person. Changing jobs, only changes the person I depend on; fundamentally nothing has changed. To be independent is freedom in a capitalistic society, which I live in, in fact by definition I am a capitalist.

The goal as a capitalist is to accumulate sufficient funds so I can do what I want when I want to do it. That is freedom, everything else is dependence (slavery) , and as wrote before in my extreme viewpoint.
Hey it is the flame forum. :))

[fodders]

Yeh but slavery denotes no choice, and, living where you do, you have multiple choices, even in your own country, you can choose to not be a part of capitalist society, as many did when they returned from the Vietnam war, they went up into the hills and live off the land

[EllipsusD]

It's called the social contract, get used to it and feel lucky to live in a country that has some idea of what this is. You could be a lot worse off, ya know. You are protected from most things the way things are... though sometimes it seems that governments try to be overprotective (over restrictive). All I can say to you is that if you don't like it, then do something about it. And be more optimistic.

[zxcvbnm]

we all die.

have some fun while your at it, man.

[dsm]

Gawd, this thread is fuckin' stupid!
I mean here's a guy who whines about society, while he could've been far worse off.
I don't care that some people tell me what to do (as long as they are fair and have good reasons), I wouldn't be living as comfortable as I live now if noone told me what to do, so quit complainin' about society - it's not like we're starving to death like in some African countries.

[Lengis]

Alright, how about you pay me 100 posts per week to post here? If you make more than 100 legit posts per week, you get to keep the remainder! Sound good? I sure like it.

Uhh, that made no sense

If your gona make a joke, remember u need this pesky thing called "humor" in it...

/me rolls eyes

[dsm]

Alright, how about you pay me 100 posts per week to post here? If you make more than 100 legit posts per week, you get to keep the remainder! Sound good? I sure like it.

Uhh, that made no sense

If your gona make a joke, remember u need this pesky thing called "humor" in it...

Whaddya mean? It's got plenty o' humour!
Don't be such a spoil-sport.

[pritch]

the sort of stuff I thought of when I was 14

Please shoot me then for not thinking of things at the exact same age as you.

Heh, steady on. I wasn't criticising you for thinking it, just saying that I think you will change your opinions over time, ok?

[ShadyXMR]

Heh, steady on. I wasn't criticising you for thinking it, just saying that I think you will change your opinions over time, ok?

I have a feeling that I'll quickly forget about it now that I have written it down.

[Zaldron]

The woods are out there. You can leave society anytime you want...

[DooMBoy]

Hey, ever thought about starting an anti-slavery riot, shady? :)

[dsm]

Shut up DooMBoy! You don't want to encourage him to actually go out there and act like a moron.