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Alphawolf

The Truth about Religion

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It'd be funny if someone made a video with a Muslim who has gone to heaven and how he is so happy to be greeted by 53 virgins, but then realizes like... shit, that's a lot of needy wenches, and then, you know, shots of him trying to talk to all of them, and then dealing with the jealousy etc and them getting more bitchy when he loses patience with all of them. And then maybe he elopes with one or two he likes, but then the rest plot against him and his afterlife ends up being a bit shorter than the eternity he was imagining. And then like a shot of God not too far off up on his throne just laughing his ass off. "Ahh, geez, it never gets old." And then he pretends to admonish the virgins for being naughty killing the guy.

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Religion has absolutely had its day. "Relieved" won't even come close to describing the feeling I will get once it's phased out completely. It has to. We as a society must move on.

I don't believe this "the human spirit needs nourishment from belief in a non-tangible entity" bullshit, by the way. The "spirit" is a metaphorical concept, you brainiologist numpties.

I've had enough, so here's Marcus Brigstocke on the subject.

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I prefer Dave Allen's approach to the subject

The truth about religion is that it evolved from shamanism (some millennia before recorded history when the mysteries of life and most of the natural world could scare the average person shitless) with countless greater and lesser deities being created to cater to our spiritual needs and help explain away natural events that few understood and none could control. Population growth and our communal tendencies resulted in the development of dogmas, hierarchies and power bases that persist to this day. While organized religion might occasionally revise it's dogma in an attempt to remain socially relevant, at heart it's a practice that relies on fear and ignorance, which is probably the main reason it's in decline in better educated societies.

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Religion will keep replicating, probably teaming up with penis pill emails and lolcats until whatever retards are in power, perhaps Anonymous by then, figure out how to harness it into a beam and destroy humanity while saying “I’M A’ FIRIN’ MAH LAZER!!” (and sadly I copy/pasted that from Know Your Meme, the corporate sellout that is probably also secretly run by Anonymous just because they were bored and wanted something new to battle, understandably because that game called "IRL" that we're all required by Obama to play is pretty damn boring since its mostly full of sitting in a desk at a holding pen quasi jail high school where you have to raise your hand to go to the bathroom, until some con artist at a for profit college calls your name in line after all your youth is gone). Religion is too lucrative for comedians and book writers and tax evaders to die. Both in the form of money, and for the latter, in the form of providing a solid convenient system in which to molest children. Even if the material paints it in a negative light, its a replicator and all publicity is good publicity. And it constantly mutates into new forms like AIDS. Any religion thread gets the most replies, and every time a baby is born its brain starts over at the same essential primitive state we've been at for the last 10,000 years, a big bottleneck preventing humanity from upgrading, only getting worse because our destruction of the healthy process of natural selection is making us accumulate deleterious genetic mutations like in the movie Idiocracy.

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gggmork said:

and every time a baby is born its brain starts over at the same essential primitive state we've been at for the last 10,000 years, a big bottleneck preventing humanity from upgrading, only getting worse because our destruction of the healthy process of natural selection is making us accumulate deleterious genetic mutations like in the movie Idiocracy.

I think you mean 250,000 years. Biological evolution for large, complex creatures takes 10s of millions of years to produce anything of real difference. Religious institutions or not, medical technology or not, humanity as it is, unless we destroy ourselves, is here to stay for a very long time.

QQ

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Captain Toenail said:

Billy Connolly is a comedy genius.

Indeed. Connolly is the only comedian who can dish out good old fashioned British blue humour and still make me lol for real.

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Religion is awesome, God is awesome! You don't know shit about Him!

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Rambosee said:

To me, religion is just a way to deal with lifes complications. Think about it.

Yeah, Denial is a common defense mechanism.

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fraggle said:

Yeah, Denial is a common defense mechanism.


And everyone wonders why I find Atheists obnoxious. Religion, good or bad, has helped people through rough times the world over. In times of crisis, what places are filled with people joined under a common cause? Churches, mosques, and temples. Hell, the churches around my area still provide sanctuary to those who need it.

And I'd love to see your know-it-all attitude towards people who have "Found God" after having a loved one pass away, or bankruptcy, or foreclosure, or whatever. Go ahead and talk down to them. I'm sure they'll appreciate it. After all, you and everyone else in this thread know the truth, right?

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Mr. Freeze said:

people who have "Found God" after having a loved one pass away, or bankruptcy, or foreclosure, or whatever


you mean "gone insane"

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Mr. Freeze said:

And everyone wonders why I find Atheists obnoxious. Religion, good or bad, has helped people through rough times the world over. In times of crisis, what places are filled with people joined under a common cause? Churches, mosques, and temples. Hell, the churches around my area still provide sanctuary to those who need it.

And I'd love to see your know-it-all attitude towards people who have "Found God" after having a loved one pass away, or bankruptcy, or foreclosure, or whatever. Go ahead and talk down to them. I'm sure they'll appreciate it. After all, you and everyone else in this thread know the truth, right?


Yes, religion is a very helpful tool for uniting people... which ends up resulting in the Crusades or Jihad because "OUR RELIGION IS RIGHT AND YOURS IS WRONG AND WE MUST CONVERT YOU OR KILL YOU". Oh, and when someone theorises something about their religion that others don't agree with (i.e. that one guy who said Jesus wasn't divine), infighting aplenty!

Religion is nice in the sense of creating morals and trying to get people to be good people, but the way it's carried out ends up having the bad outweigh the good.

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Mr. Freeze said:

And everyone wonders why I find Atheists obnoxious. Religion, good or bad, has helped people through rough times the world over. In times of crisis, what places are filled with people joined under a common cause? Churches, mosques, and temples. Hell, the churches around my area still provide sanctuary to those who need it.

You're right. Think of all the great common causes religion had to bring people together. Like the inqusition, crusades, 9/11, anti-semitism, etc. Anyway, I'm guessing you're a christian, seeing as you're american (as far as I know). Which of the some 32000 christian denominations do you happen to belong to?

Mr. Freeze said:

And I'd love to see your know-it-all attitude towards people who have "Found God" after having a loved one pass away, or bankruptcy, or foreclosure, or whatever. Go ahead and talk down to them. I'm sure they'll appreciate it. After all, you and everyone else in this thread know the truth, right?


If they keep it to themselves, I'd probably let it be. But if they'd pester me or others with their conviction? I'd probably say something like this.


Xeros612 said:

Religion is nice in the sense of creating morals and trying to get people to be good people, but the way it's carried out ends up having the bad outweigh the good.

What is it you're smoking? Morals of today doesn't come from religion. Good morals never come from religion. Religious people at best taken them from the prevaling society of the day. But in religious cults like Catholicism there is of course a lot of horrible moral tragedies concerted by their religious dogma. Like telling people that condoms gives you aids because your stupid ideology is against contraception. How about America, where Gays are treated as second class citizens because of religion? Or how stem cell research and abortions are touchy subjects and in some cases even dangerous to do because of religious nutters that act agressive against those performing it? Or in Uganda where it's a death penalty to be gay. Where the religious right in America has been propagating their claims that homosexuals are inclined to be child rapists and other absurdities.

Or how it's ok in Islam to marry a child girl before puberty? How a woman being raped need to present 4 male witnesses to even have a chance to get a case in a sharia court? How it is a death penalty to denounce the islamic religion?

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If religion makes you feel great, great. If atheism makes you feel great, great. But I can't help but get the impression that in both sides of the argument festers a lot of bitterness and aggression and a myriad of other negative stuff that's not helping mankind progress as it should.

I've said this before elsewhere: the world would be no less sinister of a place if it were sans religion, boys and girls. We'd still find reasons to fuck ourselves up.

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Jimmy91 said:

I don't believe this "the human spirit needs nourishment from belief in a non-tangible entity" bullshit, by the way. The "spirit" is a metaphorical concept, you brainiologist numpties.


Religion doesn't have to involve belief in a non-tangible entity. Emotions are not a metaphorical concept, and I think that human emotions need nourishment from something...that something is often "bigger" than the individual. For obvious reasons too. I don't believe this "I'm just an individual and all I want to do is live my own life" bullshit. I'm not saying that you claim this, but I just feel a lot of people I know have that kind of sentiment. People have begun losing track of community, which is one of the most important aspects of religion.

I happen to have "religious" or "spiritual" reverence for tangible entities. So fuck "getting rid" of religion - changing it would be awesome. But it would suck if nobody could see divinity in anything. We would basically just be a bunch of jerks.

Also, atheists are just as stupid as those who believe in an intangible god. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

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magicsofa said:

Also, atheists are just as stupid as those who believe in an intangible god. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Now you're being stupid. Assuming/claiming that Atheists claim to KNOW there is no god.

DoomUK said:

If religion makes you feel great, great. If atheism makes you feel great, great. But I can't help but get the impression that in both sides of the argument festers a lot of bitterness and aggression and a myriad of other negative stuff that's not helping mankind progress as it should.

I've said this before elsewhere: the world would be no less sinister of a place if it were sans religion, boys and girls. We'd still find reasons to fuck ourselves up.

The bitterness on the Atheist side of the argument, comes from the perpetual lies, persecution of others and intentional ignorance promoted by the religious. The attempt of religious dogma to enter the science classrooms, the rewriting of text-books to make a new history for america promoting religion. The ideas that Atheists shouldn't be allowed to express themselves freely. And for what? For a fairy tale.

The christian religion as it is drawn in the bible has long been proven false. The world is more than 6000 years. Eve was not created from one of Adams ribs. Humans didn't come from clay. Etc. Yeah there might be a higher being out there. But that only begs the question. Where did that being come from? There's no reason of thinking there is that higher being out there so what is the point in putting one there? And especially one that got the mentality of a 3 year old from 2000 years ago.

Simply throwing your hands in the air and saying that there would be no benefit from bettering ourselves is stupid. If people had done that throughout human history we wouldn't have ever left the caves. We did try it for a while though. 300 years of no progression what so ever. We call it the dark ages. Religion was in charge and nothing that didn't comply with the holy fairytale wasn't allowed. Only took the church half a millennia to aoplogize for Galileo.

Letting things slide just to not ruffle som feathers only leaves you getting fucked.

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kristus said:

Now you're being stupid. Assuming/claiming that Atheists claim to KNOW there is no god.


actually, Atheists do. Agnostics don't.

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kristus said:

Unassailable pro-atheism stuff

Tolerance of one another is key. Regardless of what you believe or don't believe, know or don't know.

The thing is, some irl friends of mine with the deepest religious convictions, some which I myself have trouble getting my head around, are surprisingly tolerant towards others' objections towards their faith(s). It's amusing to see militant atheists like Dawkins et all strive to commit all religious belief to some dark chapter of history that should be forgotten about, all because he's still pissed about being dragged to uninspiring and dull church ceremonies when he was a kid.

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Dark Claw said:

actually, Atheists do. Agnostics don't.

To be an Atheist simply means that you lack the belief in a god or gods. KTNX; Please try again.

DoomUK said:

Tolerance of one another is key. Regardless of what you believe or don't believe, know or don't know.

The thing is, some irl friends of mine with the deepest religious convictions, some which I myself have trouble getting my head around, are surprisingly tolerant towards others' objections towards their faith(s). It's amusing to see militant atheists like Dawkins et all strive to commit all religious belief to some dark chapter of history that should be forgotten about, all because he's still pissed about being dragged to uninspiring and dull church ceremonies when he was a kid.

I have relatives that belive in god. I don't run around telling them to get stuffed because of it, and I doubt anyone do. Including Dawkins. People are allowed to believe any nonsense they like. It's a problem when they claim it's some kind of unassailable truth and that it deserves special consideration and respect. That's really what the debate is about. Personal nonsense beliefs withstanding. There's plenty of stupid shit people believe in. I had a girlfriend once who believed in ghosts, that she was psychic and an array of other nonsense. I simply said once that I didn't believe in any of that and she was insulted because of it.

But her silly superstitions didn't hurt anyone but herself (and me because I had to listen to her talking about it).

EDIT: And I am tolerant of others. People who know me know me as a very diplomatic and patient person. But while I always have a basic respect of any person, I don't need to respect their beliefs. They need to stand on their own merit.

Online, I only address the ideas of a person. And the ideas are what I deal with. So I won't be the same person online as I am in private (I suppose this is some sort of rationalization on my part).

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I guess a fundamental difference is that some people who have got religion believe it is their duty to convert others.

Think about it, if they believe getting someone to follow their god will save that person's immortal soul for all eternity, they think they are doing you a pretty damned big favour. Presumably, from their perspective, a favour that you would realise as soon as you saw the light too.

From their POV, they are doing just about the most important thing you can do for someone else.


Although Dawkins has done a lot to raise the debate and put a certain point of view across, to me watching him often seems like watching someone speaking with the same level of religious fervour as the people he tries to denounce.

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Enjay said:

Although Dawkins has done a lot to raise the debate and put a certain point of view across, to me watching him often seems like watching someone speaking with the same level of religious fervour as the people he tries to denounce.

This is precisely how I feel about him.

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