Serenity IV?

[Megamur]

I'm sure any of you who've been playing WADs for the original DOOM for some time are familiar with the Serenity series: Serenity, Eternity and Infinity. There's a certain indefinable charm to them that has kept them as a staple on my hard drive for years. However, with the addition of Thy Flesh Consumed in Ultimate DOOM, which was never replaced by a Serenity set, there's been left a yawning, empty chasm in the completeness of the series. I've always felt Serenity needed to be finished with a final episode: Serenity IV (or maybe it would be Serenity Zero, since the series starts on E3 and goes backwards to E1).

Of course, this begs me to wonder, would anyone actually be interested in playing an episode replacement done in a `94-`95 style, these days? Or would you want something that's more modern in appearance that just kind of references Serenity?

Furthermore, does Serenity have a strong enough style to actually be replicated? Aside from every level having a huge letter in it somewhere that eventually spells out the episode's title, each episode having at least one church-like level, and the series employing some stained-glass window and "graffiti" textures, I'm not entirely sure what the levels would need to really make them feel like Serenity.

Any thoughts?

[General Rainbow Bacon]

I think a lot of people would play '94 style wads. Hence, we're working on the DTWID project. Anyway, a Serenity IV would be fun.

E: Maybe call it: Returnity.

[Megamur]

"Divinity" was the title I'd thought of. That fits the eight-letter title structure of the other episodes, so it could have one letter per level as in the original trilogy...though that's a whole lot of I's.

Also, the DTWID project looks really cool, by the way. I love "retro" levelsets. :)

[General Rainbow Bacon]

Divinity sounds good too, check out my level for DTWID. It's the e3m7 replacement and is pretty hard on UV, plus I made the best secret super hard to get :)

[Megamur]

Sure thing! I'll give it a spin later today. :)

[DeathevokatioN]

I really love the Serenity series, and have always thought it'd be cool to make something that was a tribute to it... but I'm way too busy with my own projects and I'm scraping through university as it is. :)

It would be wise to try and get hold of the authors of the original for the permission to make a sequel. Either that or you just name it Divinity and say in the text that it's inspired by "Serenity series" or something.

[Death Egg]

I remember reading on the site that it was originally in development, and in fact, the map Trydent was originally one of the level for it. I would like to see a Serenity IV, but it wouldn't be the same without having the original two behind it, I'd bet.

[PRIMEVAL]

I actually never heard of this series... I'll have to check it out.

[Megamur]

DeathevokatioN said:

I really love the Serenity series, and have always thought it'd be cool to make something that was a tribute to it... but I'm way too busy with my own projects and I'm scraping through university as it is. :)

That's all right. I'm not begging for mappers right now or anything. Heck, I'm not even sure if I'm going to even start a project here. I was just testing the waters to see if there was any interest.

It would be wise to try and get hold of the authors of the original for the permission to make a sequel. Either that or you just name it Divinity and say in the text that it's inspired by "Serenity series" or something.

Probably the latter. I wouldn't even begin to know how to contact a couple of guys that really haven't been part of the community for over a decade.

TrueDude said:

I remember reading on the site that it was originally in development, and in fact, the map Trydent was originally one of the level for it. I would like to see a Serenity IV, but it wouldn't be the same without having the original two behind it, I'd bet.

Ah, yes, I've played Trydent before. Kind of a peculiar map, but not bad, per se. And I'm sure it wouldn't be quite the same as the old episodes, but I still like the idea of paying homage and trying to make the series complete to some degree.

PRIMEVAL said:

I actually never heard of this series... I'll have to check it out.

They're very old and probably won't have the same appeal as they used to, but basically, when people look back fondly on `94-`95 WADs with their nostalgia glasses on, they're thinking of stuff like the Serenity series. :)

[Varis Alpha]

Ah yes, '94 and '95 wads. Though nowhere as competent as today's wads, you just can't argue that they have a certain kind of appeal.

[MTrop]

So what did happen to Bjorn Hermans and Holger Nathrath, anyway? Did they just stop making maps? I wonder where they are now.

I ask because I'm a huge fan.

[Megamur]

I actually e-mailed Bjorn Hermans years ago and had mentioned Serenity IV. I don't exactly remember what was said. I think he just mentioned how it's not an impossibility, but he'd been too busy lately. I doubt he has much passion for the idea anymore. I have no clue about Holger Nathrath. Just disappeared from the community a few years after DOOM's release, as far as I'm aware.

[Ribbiks]

-

[Clonehunter]

PRIMEVAL said:

I actually never heard of this series... I'll have to check it out.

[Megamur]

Well, I've been sketching up some ideas for E4M8. Not sure if it'll amount to anything--none of my map projects have so far--but we'll see.

Edit: Also, I learned today that Eternity's final level from a pistol start is extremely hard, unless there's some really necessary secrets I missed.

[Jan]

Megamur said:

"Divinity" was the title I'd thought of. That fits the eight-letter title structure of the other episodes, so it could have one letter per level as in the original trilogy...though that's a whole lot of I's.

What about "Insanity"?

[Megamur]

That does fit the correct "8 letters, ending in -nity" structure. Furthermore, it would "bookend" the titles nicely, starting with Serenity (a state of mind), Eternity (reference to endless time), Infinity (another reference to endless time), and ending with Insanity (another state of mind). My only qualms are that it's a pretty generic title, as there are several WADs already called "Insanity." It's also rather conflicting with the...well, more serene titles of the other episodes. But I'm not totally opposed to it.

[darkreaver]

Well, after spending an eternity in infinity in a world where all you do battling endless hordes of hell, of course you are gonna go insane ;)

[Jan]

Megamur said:

That does fit the correct "8 letters, ending in -nity" structure. Furthermore, it would "bookend" the titles nicely, starting with Serenity (a state of mind), Eternity (reference to endless time), Infinity (another reference to endless time), and ending with Insanity (another state of mind). My only qualms are that it's a pretty generic title, as there are several WADs already called "Insanity." It's also rather conflicting with the...well, more serene titles of the other episodes. But I'm not totally opposed to it.

Or choose one of the following :D

acerbity acridity activity affinity alacrity algidity anticity asperity atrocity audacity axiality banality basicity bifidity bovinity caducity calamity caninity capacity celerity chastity circuity civility conicity cubicity cupidity debility disunity divinity docility enormity equality equinity exiguity facility fatality felicity felinity feminity feracity ferocity fidelity finality fluidity fortuity fugacity futility futurity gelidity gratuity gulosity helicity heredity hilarity humanity humidity humility ideality identity idoneity immunity imparity impunity impurity inequity iniquity insanity inverity ionicity jejunity jocosity lability lanosity latinity legality legerity lividity locality lucidity majority maturity megacity minacity minority mobility modality molality molarity morality moronity morosity motility motivity mucidity mucosity nasality natality nativity nihility nobility nodality nodosity nubility obtusity otiosity penality pilosity polarity porosity priority quantity quiddity rabidity ramosity rapacity rapidity regality rigidity rimosity rugosity rurality sagacity salacity salinity sanctity sapidity scarcity security sedulity senility serosity severity sodality solidity sonority sorority sparsity temerity tenacity tepidity timidity tonality tonicity torosity totality toxicity triunity tumidity ubiquity urbanity vagility validity vapidity velleity velocity venality venosity veracity vicinity vinosity viridity virility vitality vivacity vocality voracity zygosity

[Xaser]

"Insanity" is really generic. "Divinity" fits the naming scheme perfectly, I think. Though such a project should really only be done with Bjorn on board. Wouldn't be the same otherwise. ;)

[Megamur]

janvknn said:

Or choose one of the following :D

Most of those wouldn't work, sadly, since they're longer than eight letters, and don't end in -nity. Only "disunity" (lack of unity) seemed appropriate at all, which would fit in the sense that this episode would be disconnected from the others, by being over 15 years older and by not having the same level authors.

How'd you compile that list, anyway?

[Jan]

Megamur said:

Most of those wouldn't work, sadly, since they're longer than eight letters, and don't end in -nity. Only "disunity" (lack of unity) seemed appropriate at all, which would fit in the sense that this episode would be disconnected from the others, by being over 15 years older and by not having the same level authors.

How'd you compile that list, anyway?

I copied the words from
http://www.morewords.com/ends-with/ity/

... and then filtered out the 8 letter words with a quick awk script.

awk '{if (length($1)==8) print $1}' words.txt

[purist]

Megamur said:

How'd you compile that list, anyway?

I don't know but I'm taking him to a casino.

And I agree with both points Xaser made.

[Megamur]

janvknn said:

I copied the words from
http://www.morewords.com/ends-with/ity/

... and then filtered out the 8 letter words with a quick awk script.

awk '{if (length($1)==8) print $1}' words.txt

Oh, then I just miscounted how many letters they had. My apologies.

Very convenient site. I've always wanted a resource like that. Thanks for the link!

And if someone can wrangle Bjorn Hermans out of DOOM retirement, be my guest.

[Jan]

Megamur said:

Oh, then I just miscounted how many letters they had. My apologies.

No problem ;)

Megamur said:

Very convenient site. I've always wanted a resource like that. Thanks for the link!

Very convenient, although I realize I could have just used the wordlist file in /usr/share/dict/words on my linux system. Then it would have been an awk oneliner

awk '$1~/ity$/ {if (length($1)==8) print $1}' /usr/share/dict/words|egrep -v "serenity|infinity|eternity"

[Vorpal]

DeathevokatioN said:

It would be wise to try and get hold of the authors of the original for the permission to make a sequel. Either that or you just name it Divinity and say in the text that it's inspired by "Serenity series" or something.

I'm going to go a step further and plead for the second proposed scenario... if you have no association with the originals, then declaring your project the sequel makes no sense to me. It would simultaneously dilute the first three episodes and rob the actual author to make it himself.

Mimicing, deriving inspiration, etc. is all great though, and it's how we move forward creatively (I don't believe there is such a thing as inspirationless art). But claiming your work as a direct sequel without any shred of association to the original is silly (hell, even in cases where there IS association, e.g. Herbert's son with Dune sequels, it's still terrible).

[DeathevokatioN]

Vorpal said:

I'm going to go a step further and plead for the second proposed scenario... if you have no association with the originals, then declaring your project the sequel makes no sense to me. It would simultaneously dilute the first three episodes and rob the actual author to make it himself.

True, although I've been thinking... declaring something an "unofficial sequel" to a series, would that also be unethical? But ofcourse just explaining this in the text and uploading it under the name of "Insanity" as opposed to "Serenity IV". It'll still give the original authors the chance to carry on with the official series.

[Megamur]

Vorpal said:

I'm going to go a step further and plead for the second proposed scenario... if you have no association with the originals, then declaring your project the sequel makes no sense to me. It would simultaneously dilute the first three episodes and rob the actual author to make it himself.

I don't see how. A new episode doesn't suddenly modify the existing ones in any way. And if the original author wanted to make a sequel, wouldn't this have happened a really long time ago? Furthermore, have you ever played Contra 4, perchance? Direct sequel to Contra III, made by an American production team over ten years later, and it was faaaantastic. :)

Regardless, if I'm actually making anything out of this project, I'll probably just call it "Serenity Zero." This would respectfully make it sound like it's "lesser" than the original trilogy, and would leave the #4 spot open on the near-impossible, miraculous chance Nathrath & Hermans decided to make it.

[printz]

Xaser said:

Though such a project should really only be done with Bjorn on board. Wouldn't be the same otherwise. ;)

I believe Holger Nathrath did lots of work on the Serenity series as well. Interesting trivia: Nathrath also contributed some maps to the cancelled Eternity TC by Quasar :)

Lastly, I know they did some work for Strain.

[Xaser]

printz said:

I believe Holger Nathrath did lots of work on the Serenity series as well.

He did. Only reason I mentioned Bjorn and not Holger is that (from what I can gather, also Megamur's post) the former is still somewhat active on the 'net and the latter is not.