Regenerating Health

[DuckReconMajor]

So, uh, to say that the majority of Doomworld isn't much a fan of regenerating health is an understatement.

But I just finished playing through Scythe 2. At MAP23 I wimped out and turned on god mode. But I noticed something. Before every insane fight you get fed megaspheres and sometimes even invulnerability. Sometimes even enough to where you can come back and get more should you get beaten up. How is this any different?

[Mithran Denizen]

The difference is that with regenerating health, collecting health pickups is no longer a gameplay element. Feeding the player massive amounts of health and powerups at once is just lazy use of that gameplay element.

I actually like regenerating health in many cases; searching for health items isn't always among the most fun aspects of gameplay, and many games are better without so much focus on it. The downside is that the effect, especially when poorly done, eliminates the challenge of managing your survival, and rewards the repetitive tactic of alternating between playing carelessly, and periodically hiding.

[The Lag]

that's why i am a fan of the middle-ground between doom-style instant-use pick-ups and halo-style regenerating health: inventory health items. if you get in a tough fight and get beat-up then you can use a health-kit from your inventory -- if you have any.

this post brought to you by -

[Technician]

The Lag said:

that's why i am a fan of the middle-ground between doom-style instant-use pick-ups and halo-style regenerating health: inventory health items. if you get in a tough fight and get beat-up then you can use a health-kit from your inventory -- if you have any.

this post brought to you by -

Yeah, that was a cool system Heretic/Hexen brought to us.

[Xeros612]

In all honesty I don't mind regenerating health in the way Halo does it. Halo at least has a believable in-universe explanation for such a feature: 500 years into the future, new tech, biofoam technology. Kind of like how Crysis has the nanosuit explanation. Wolfenstein (2009) having it wouldn't bother me if it was only active through having the Veil device, considering it's magic and all.

What I hate is games that are set in a more modern/realistic setting, or even a past setting, that toss it in for no reason other than to make the game faster, easier, and to make casual players not ragequit the short story mode, if they even bother with it at all instead of taking their $60 purchase and jumping right into multiplayer.

Inventory systems are probably the best in terms of health. Bonus points if it uses the Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth system.

[Csonicgo]

I think if there is any regenerating health, it should have a limit if you are 1% or something like that, staying low may bring it up to 15% or around that so you can run through and grab that medikit if you dare. Cause I hate having 1%, dammit.

[Xeros612]

So in other words, the F.E.A.R. system? (With or without its inventory system.) I don't know... even when it only regenerates to 25% on regular difficulty, it takes some of the intensity away when it bumps up to something the vast majority of enemies in the game would have to hit you a couple times to do enough damage to kill.

[PRIMEVAL]

The difference between putting a lot of Powerups / Health before battle and regeneration: the former is limited - if you don't use it wisely, you're screwed. Regen allows unlimited access to infinite health at the cost of time.

Personally, as long as the game is fun, I don't care how it's done. I think partial regen is good, as it is more realistic (not really saying much). You get beat up, rest for a bit, you're a little stronger than before but not at your full potential.

[Csonicgo]

Xeros612 said:

So in other words, the F.E.A.R. system? (With or without its inventory system.) I don't know... even when it only regenerates to 25% on regular difficulty, it takes some of the intensity away when it bumps up to something the vast majority of enemies in the game would have to hit you a couple times to do enough damage to kill.

Since in doom (with the doomguy being really weak anyway) 15% is a great upper bound.

[Enjay]

In all the games I have played with regenerating health I felt that it made the game feel too easy. I just had to hide for a bit to be OK to move on.

I have to admit, however, that searching for health can be a bit tedious - especially if you know that you have passed some health a while back and have to back-track for ages to get it.

However, there is something quite intense and satisfying about getting down to a low health value and nursing yourself through the game, taking minimal risks, and then eventually finding that prized health pack. With regenerating health, that doesn't happen.

[caco_killer]

Regenerating health only makes a game easy on the easiest difficulty, otherwise the character is too fragile for it to truly help. A good example is Halo Reach on Legendary. There are several enemies who can kill you in one hit, and everything else will take you down in mere seconds.

Could you imagine playing COD4 on Veteran with health packs? It would be extremely tedious because you would need to fully heal yourself every time someone shot you.

[Mithran Denizen]

Incidentally, the system used in Halo:CE and Halo: Reach is also a nice sort of balance, with a recharging shield overtop of the traditional health bar that requires medical kits. I just played Reach for the first time a few days ago, and I'm glad they brought back the health bar from the first game.

[DuckReconMajor]

I got Call of Duty Classic thinking it would be cool to play a Call of Duty game without regenerating health. It wasn't.

[printz]

I hoped this would be a thread about (human) tissue regeneration.

[Spleen]

Maybe it's annoying because it forces the player to keep waiting after fights, and slows down the action.

But then again, remembering where all the items are, and having to backtrack through the level several times, is arguably less fun.

I think health should be more scarce and not regenerate, but there also shouldn't be a concept of "max health." That eliminates the issues with both of the above approaches. Something along the lines of Spelunky is perfect game-play wise

edit: whoops

[TwinBeast]

I think a slow regeneration rate plus health items could be nice. So it would be a bit like finding a health bonus once in a while, but it would be so slow, that hardly anyone would leave the game on to wait for player character to regenerate to 100% from 1%. Like if it was 1% increase every 30 seconds, it would take 49 minutes and 30 seconds to get to 100% from 1%.

I remember Redneck Rampage had a "yeehaa" button that healed 1% on every use. I think you could press the button about every 2-5 seconds.

[Quast]

Enjay said:

However, there is something quite intense and satisfying about getting down to a low health value and nursing yourself through the game, taking minimal risks, and then eventually finding that prized health pack. With regenerating health, that doesn't happen.

This. When health itself is a resource to deal with, it can, at times force you to play the game in ways that you never would have otherwise. If you constantly have full health and armor, you can always go in guns a blazing, but if not, you may have to rely on unique strategies on the fly. Whether that's trying to pull enemies out of a door one by one or whatever. But when dying isn't a concern, why bother?

[DuckReconMajor]

Quast said:

Whether that's trying to pull enemies out of a door one by one or whatever.

That shit is boring. When it gets to that point I just turn the game off.

[Whoo]

In most cases I don't like regenerating health. The only game I've ever liked it in was Mass Effect 2. It was a pain the ass to constantly deplete your Medi-gel on yourself in Mass Effect 1 if you didn't have a medical upgrade for your armor.

[sheeple]

Quast said:

This. When health itself is a resource to deal with, it can, at times force you to play the game in ways that you never would have otherwise. If you constantly have full health and armor, you can always go in guns a blazing, but if not, you may have to rely on unique strategies on the fly. Whether that's trying to pull enemies out of a door one by one or whatever. But when dying isn't a concern, why bother?

Being faster at the game and memorizing different maps often eliminates the need for elaborate strategies.

[Technician]

DuckReconMajor said:

That shit is boring. When it gets to that point I just turn the game off.

I apologies for my previous ADD jab that I made to you on the grounds you obviously have it.

[DuckReconMajor]

You're going to have to try harder than that to offend me, bitch.

[Technician]

DuckReconMajor said:

You're going to have to try harder than that to offend me, bitch.

I'm not trying to offend out, I can't. You've just taken one of the most interesting elements of Doom and exiled it. You are obviously someone who's more in-tuned with modern, hand-holding, one-hour photo First person shooters.

Take what you will.

[DuckReconMajor]

I will. And eat it, too. And keep playing Doom, whether you think I enjoy it properly or not.

[Xeros612]

DuckReconMajor said:

That shit is boring. When it gets to that point I just turn the game off.

So once it gets to the point that even the slightest bit of strategy comes into the play you don't want to play anymore? That's just sad.

[DuckReconMajor]

There's a difference between "slightest bit of strategy" and "pick off enemies one by one until the 30th one manages to kill me and I have to take another hour to do it again"

[Xeros612]

Quicksave is your friend. Mid-battle saving is always a good move, provided you know well enough to use a separate save from your pre-battle save.

[DuckReconMajor]

Keeping up with saves is frustrating.

[Xeros612]

It's about as hard as 2+2. Come on.

[Mithran Denizen]

It's also really dull, though. I don't have a lot of time for games as it is, so if I'm expected to quicksave before/after/in every second fight, I'll often just quit playing; I have better things to do than replay a battle (or sections of one) over and over again until I win, regardless of any 'strategy' that may or may not come into play.