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KiiiYiiiKiiiA

MeaCulpa map 07 "Logistics" Version 4. Compatibility issues fixed. And other stuff.

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Mea Culpa. Map 07.

A huge map for ZDoom, so seven maps now finished for the Mea Culpa project.

The last couple of weeks has seen huge changes to this project as a whole. It has been really good to get some of these big issues cleared up.

Thanks for all the feedback and criticisms and encouragement. This level (and the project as a whole) is heaps better for it. Hopefully version 4 will be the final version of this map, at least for the time being. :)

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

VERSION 4

Download: http://www.mediafire.com/?b66mwzpx1cb9o4m

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Changes in version 4:

-Fixed 'compat_useblocking' in MAPINFO so that the switches/lifts that didn't work for some people should now work for everybody. (Thanks Gez for this, n' sorry everyone and gggmork in particular for the broken level that resulted from this...)
-The start radio now has a huge flashing, strobing, glowing light so it should be much clearer to anyone wondering what to do at the start.
-fixed another potential level breaker. In order to progress at one point, you have to kill 8 arachnotrons (less on other difficulties), and killing these 8 allows level progression. If you happen to stand on one of the arach entry points for a sufficient time (15 seconds) you could break the level by preventing it teleporting in. But now this TeleportInSector (and the chaingun arach teleport following) is set on an infinite loop, so this cannot happen.
-Fixed several minor GLDefs issues (Thanks Gez again for pointing these out.)
-Several script issues fixed.
-Minor textural changes.
-Haven't made the start radio sequence skippable. Am still thinking about that.

Changes in version 3:

-FULLSCREEN HUD now works. (not just the alternate HUD) Thanks Killer2 for pointing this out and Enjay and wildWeasel for giving a solution to the problem.
-The "Dark" voices now have a new quake-based text font.
-flashing red light next to the start radio. (Not very visible, but there is an arrow there now as well)
-ITYTD, HNTR and HMP have had a number of their fights made easier and more health added.
-minor scripting and textural changes.


Changes in version 2:

-Huge modifications to the main crate so as to improve framerate.
-LEVEL NOW HAS MOOSIC !!!
-Moved pinky that was stuck in wall (Thanks Mr Gazebo)
-added floor arrows to 2 places in the start room to hopefully make things more obvious.
-deleted a bunch of unnecessary linedefs around the level. (not heaps but some)
-Fixed the stuff that gggmork mentioned. The switches in that main crate are no longer hittable through the outer walls, and that lift is no longer accessible once you hit the final switch in the crates.
-minor textural changes and alignments.
-minor scripting changes.

AND NOW FOR OOODLES OF SCRREEEEEENIES !!1!









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The detailing looks a little bit more copypasted than I usually like (particularly in screens 2, 3, 4, and 8), but it seems like it might be a fun map. I'll check it out and try to give some feedback when I get a chance.

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The pink, Thing# 2113, has been placed inside a wall.

Other than that, however, I didn't encounter any bugs, I don't think.

Unless that boss, in the hell/pentagram section, that you 'banish' was supposed to attack? (I also really like that feminine switch texture you used there. :D)

Now, how close are you Kyka (what the hell happened to your name? 0_o), to finishing this? I really enjoyed the old beta you gave me, so it will be great to see the finished version. (You've obviously put a ton of time and effort into this wad.)

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Hey Kyka. I haven't played yet, but judging from the screens, from what I can see the layouts look interesting and I can see you have all the best elements of classic wads with regards to layout, and I can see you made an effort with the textures. But I can see WAAAAAY too much copy paste detailing to the point where it actually looks boring, it looks like your trying to fill up some kind of quota for a high level of detailing to make this project more current to modern standards, but in all honesty symmetrical copy paste detailing to that degree can get tedious for a player very quickly and gives people like me a headache to wade through, and eventually it all just looks the same anyway. A lower level of detail + more unique details and less copy pasting usually ends up making areas way more attractive and memorable than high level of detail that's been achieved via copy pasting. I hope this feedback helps, and I hope even more that I don't come off as insulting. ;) Also feel free to dismiss my opinion.

I like the last shot though.

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Insane_Gazebo said:

Now, how close are you Kyka (what the hell happened to your name? 0_o), to finishing this?

This is a fair question, as I've seen you post recently under your real account.

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Really sorry everyone. I didn't realise that setting the file to private would block it from being downloaded via forum links like this. OOps. It is fixed now.

DeathevokatioN said:

Hey Kyka. I haven't played yet, but judging from the screens, from what I can see the layouts look interesting and I can see you have all the best elements of classic wads with regards to layout, and I can see you made an effort with the textures. But I can see WAAAAAY too much copy paste detailing to the point where it actually looks boring, it looks like your trying to fill up some kind of quota for a high level of detailing to make this project more current to modern standards, but in all honesty symmetrical copy paste detailing to that degree can get tedious for a player very quickly and gives people like me a headache to wade through, and eventually it all just looks the same anyway. A lower level of detail + more unique details and less copy pasting usually ends up making areas way more attractive and memorable than high level of detail that's been achieved via copy pasting. I hope this feedback helps, and I hope even more that I don't come off as insulting. ;) Also feel free to dismiss my opinion.

I like the last shot though.


So the lesson for me here is "post fewer screenies." :P No seriously, you haven't come off insulting at all, I really appreciate this feedback. My mapping is far better now than it was several years ago precisely because of feedback like this, so yeah, I don't mind this at all. I think the detailing actually works well for this level, I wanted a very hard, detailed look to the level. I understand that this won't work for everyone, though I do hope that people actually give the level a chance by actually playing it rather than just judging it too much by the screenies.

Yeah I totally see what you are saying tho. Mekadon's "Vela Pax", Insane Gazebo's "Sunder" and many of Espi's maps, Gusta's maps from PL2, these maps all display a beautiful "organic" feel where everything looks really "solid", if you know what I mean, and this is what I think you are driving at here. It is something I wish I could do better than I do.

Insane_Gazebo said:

The pink, Thing# 2113, has been placed inside a wall.

Other than that, however, I didn't encounter any bugs, I don't think.

Unless that boss, in the hell/pentagram section, that you 'banish' was supposed to attack? (I also really like that feminine switch texture you used there. :D)

Now, how close are you Kyka (what the hell happened to your name? 0_o), to finishing this? I really enjoyed the old beta you gave me, so it will be great to see the finished version. (You've obviously put a ton of time and effort into this wad.)


Thanks for finding that pinky. Those corner pillars were a last minute thing, and I forgot to move that pinky out of the way.

That boss in the hell pentagram section, well he actually dies during the big crate fight, and that hell section is sort of a final banishment. Apparently this is not very obvious. There will be a big fight in that section, just not on this level.

Thanks for the feedback dude, much appreciated. I am glad someone got through to the end. Was it too tough overall? You are probably the wrong person to ask, coz with your godlike FPS skills, nothing probably qualifies as hard to you. :P

printz said:

This is a fair question, as I've seen you post recently under your real account.


Nothing more sinister going on here than "I decided to create a new account." And I don't think I have posted here under my old account since I left. I might have, but I don't think I have. So this is me just polishing and finishing and getting some of these levels out there, as I said I would try to do.

So yeah, while it is a fair question, it has a pretty simple answer, nothing really weird going on and anyway, I would rather keep this thread for useful things like, oooh, I don't know, playtesting this map. :) If people want to, they can always PM me or something.

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KiiiYiiiKiiiA said:

That boss in the hell pentagram section, well he actually dies during the big crate fight, and that hell section is sort of a final banishment. Apparently this is not very obvious. There will be a big fight in that section, just not on this level.


Ah, right. I thought that was what was supposed to happen. I guess I just found it really, really strange that I found myself in hell, everything was on fire and so on and... there's no fighting. None. Heh.

KiiiYiiiKiiiA said:

Thanks for the feedback dude, much appreciated. I am glad someone got through to the end. Was it too tough overall? You are probably the wrong person to ask, coz with your godlike FPS skills, nothing probably qualifies as hard to you. :P


Hah. I don't consider myself that good. Shit, I use the mouse, and I know a lot of other players don't, and there's some I've seen even without the mouse are better than me. (Like that crazy guy who can somehow beat my maps in single runs and so on. Heh.)

But no, I thought difficulty wise, it was perfect. (Though I felt your previous maps were, overall, more interesting than this one, layout wise etc.)

Will the final map have music?

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Quite a lot of cool looking stuff that probably took a lot of time and effort to make.
Had a few needle in haystack moments. In the first fda (trashed it, lucky for you so you don't have to watch it) I wandered around for like 6 minutes before I found the first switch (when there's tons of detail everywhere it just wasn't obvious to head toward that particular detail, especially when the switch texture is different than the conventional ones). Also finding the exit hallway that opens after the big fight in that main start area.
Found a bug: u know that crate that opens before the 5 min countdown..
I think u have to press that thin switch twice to kill both lifts or something (didn't look at the acs), but you can go activate the right lift, run and hit that switch the 2nd time, then run up the right lift to be perfectly safe the whole 5 min.
another bug: right at the start you can hit that same crate's computer even though its not open.. also just barely you can hit that thin switch through the side as well, to activate the 5 min countdown right at the beginning. Those thin switches are easy to miss in detail by the way but I saw it because I already knew to expect them from your previous maps :).
In any needle in haystack moments you might try using this little arrow that appear on the bottom of the screen to pinpoint the direction you're supposed to go at that moment. Saw the acs code for that on the doom wiki but forgot where (probably uses trigonometry or something which I fail at). Or not if you prefer the halflife-ish wandering around figuring out what to do/where to go gameplay.

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For some reason,I can't see the fullscreen HUD in GZDoom,help!
EDIT:Also,where can i find the other maps?

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VERSION 2 available. (OP updated also)

http://www.mediafire.com/?3mm27582fzz2bzd

OK. For everyone who was taking HUGE FRAMERATE DROPS from this level, I have gone back and made some changes to the major framerate culprit, which was the main crate in the start room. So for those who found it difficult or unplayable, hopefully this will improve things somewhat. (That crate had 2k sidedefs in an area not much bigger than a large, well, crate.)

Other changes in version 2:

-LEVEL NOW HAS MOOSIC !!!
-Moved pinky that was stuck in wall (Thanks Mr Gazebo)
-added floor arrows to 2 places in the start room to hopefully make things more obvious.
-deleted a bunch of unnecessary linedefs around the level. (not heaps but some)
-Fixed the stuff that gggmork mentioned. The switches in that main crate are no longer hittable through the outer walls, and that lift is no longer accessable once you hit the final switch in the crates.
-minor textural changes and alignments.
-minor scripting changes.

Insane_Gazebo said:

(I also really like that feminine switch texture you used there. :D)


That actually came from this thread by a guy named Fuzzball Fox. I have all the textures off this thread and since I got them, I have used them quite a bit throughout these levels.

Now, how close are you Kyka to finishing this? I really enjoyed the old beta you gave me, so it will be great to see the finished version.


All 7 maps from episode 1 are finished, so if you (or anyone else) is interested in beta testing, that would be awesome. I just wanted to see what sort of feedback I would get for such huge, mega-detailed maps.

gggmork said:

lots of really helpful stuff


Thanks dude. Man I don't know how this stuff even occurs to you to try. I would never have thought of lowering that lift, hitting the final switch, and then running back onto that lift. Brilliant! I am really glad you picked up the things you did.

They have all been fixed now.

I don't think I have ever released a level that you haven't managed to break/do completely differently from what I intended.

You, Sir, are a very tricksy hobbit.

ALSO, send me that FDA, if you still have it, coz it might be helpful in making some gameplay changes, even if it is not riveting stuff all the way through.

killer2 said:

For some reason,I can't see the fullscreen HUD in GZDoom,help!
EDIT:Also,where can i find the other maps?


I don't really know about why the HUD in GZDoom is not working, though it does seem to be working for me.

And in regards to the other maps, they have not been released. (Well except for a really old beta that was released like 2 years ago.)

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It seems my levels are exceptional at making ZDoom/GZDoom glitch out.
Sorry your sound isn't working, I have no idea what that could be. I don't know if anyone else has this problem. Probably not as they would (hopefully) have mentioned something.

Here is the limit of my technical advice. Ready? (This is gonna be awesome...)

-Do you have sound with other levels? I am assuming you do.
-Try turning off your computer. And turning it on again.
-If that doesn't work, try going into the options menu, then into the sound options, and turning up the volume (sorry.)

In truth, that is about the limit of my troubleshooting. Hope you get it working.

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It was my fault this time for the sound issue KYKA. I had ignorantly deleted all the dll files associated with doom doing a little folder clean up. Fortunately I never delete the source zip folder so it was an easy fix. Now I just have to figure out how to get the map to load correctly instead of the original IWAD maps. The music is great too BTW!

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I solved the HUD problem.Though you might want to look into it.The fullscreen HUD only shows when "enable alternative HUD" is set to "on".If it is set to off,it doesn't work.And yes,I checked.This only happens for this level.

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Well, I tried it, didn't get beyond the red key. The two switches behind the red key doors wouldn't do anything, but I'm using gzdoom 1.5.0 so it's probably a version difference. Haven't even checked what version is newest, heheh. I also wandered around for 5 minutes wondering wth to do in the beginning, but then found the button. It needs some special glowy lighting to make it stick out, even just a blinking red light would work nice. And a sound, some 'BEEEeeep .... BEEEEeeeep ... BEEEEeeeeep ...' type of thing, like there's a call on hold.

You should also do something with the autosaves - there were like 3 in the beginning, then not at all. It'd be nice if they were consistent, going with one about where the last one is and no others so you get all the story out, or one before the megarmor and another after you kill everything in the triple opening doors, then another after getting the red key. The latter sounds a bit save/reloady, but if you're adding autosaves you might as well use em.

Gameplay, I found most of it to be interesting, though I disliked the hitscanners on the first level of the big room simply cause I don't like getting shot to pieces from 500 feet away. The bottom level was nice, but having to do the 3 upper levels first whenever I died was a bit tedious. The switch-openened squares are rather easy, there aren't enough demons to make it squishy, just kinda tight. The other side of the big room is a bit easier than the first but I liked having less hitscanners. Red key, eh, just more archviles. Nothing to pressure you inside the room. Not much more to say after, was expecting a cyber after getting down but I guess that'd be a bit much, heheh.

I liked the looks of the level, a little heavy on the green but it kinda reminds of a grungy higher-tech mirror's edge with its monochromatic walls.

Well, I look at the rest of the map later. Liked what I've seen so far, keep at it man.

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Is jumping allowed?If not,how am I supposed to get in the secret crates?!Rocketjumping?

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killer2 said:

I solved the HUD problem.Though you might want to look into it.The fullscreen HUD only shows when "enable alternative HUD" is set to "on".If it is set to off,it doesn't work.And yes,I checked.This only happens for this level.


Yeah, you wee right. The level is now fixed, so that both the regular fullscreen HUD and the alternate HUD work. Was my fault. Didn't know until earlier today that if you add a new statusbar, you have to define the fullscreen HUD as well in that.

Thanks for pointing this out.

To answer your second post, jumping and crouching have both been disabled via MAPINFO.

Also all those crates open up automatically at a certain point in the level, they are just not open at the start.

ArmouredBlood said:

lots of good stuff.

And an FDA !!


Which version of the map were you playing do you know by chance for that FDA?

Thanks for this stuff. For the autosaves, there are three routes through the level for the three keys. I just put an autosave at the start of each of those, and one at the end of the radio chat, so whichever way you go, you will get 2 autosaves pretty near the start of the level, so I will probably leave those.

Autosaves are a tough one. Because they freeze the game for a second while they wave, they can be frustrating, but at the same time, having to sit through things like that start radio conversation all over again if you die is also pretty annoying.

I put a red light on the radio, though I will probably have to do a better one later.

KingKill33 said:

Two thumbs way up. I am definitely looking forward to the full release.


Hey dude. Thanks man, glad you like. How is your project coming? To get to play some Kingkill maps again would be cool. I haven't played any of your maps since the Claustrophobia series.

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Make that radio conversation skippable,I don't want to hear it each time I change versions.If you wonder how,ask The Ultimate Doomer.He had a lot of cutscenes skipped in his mod (Serpent:Resurrection).Btw any chance this project will be completed?If all the maps will be of the same quality this will be a blast to play.
EDIT:It seems to me that some sounds don't play/play too late.Could someone do some research?By sounds I mostly mean firing sounds.

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Here's a 59:29 zdoom 2.5.0 demo beating version 2 if interested (didn't get all secrets, does something cool happen if you get all the secret switches?). Hardest/most luck based part for me was elite commandos. Its probably better to play with saves rather than doing it in one go as a demo because there's some lucky parts and most requires knowledge of what will happen and its long so one small slip up could mean restarting from the beginning (and sitting through the start "cutscene" again).

http://www.speedyshare.com/files/27932427/mcmap07v2-5929-exitButNotMax-zd250--ggg.lmp

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Damn. This is seriously the best level I have played in a long, long time. It's exactly the type of gameplay I enjoy. Huge battles, but with strategy as well. sniping all those hitscanners with rockets across the large warehouse... awesome. Plenty of ammo and health, something that other mappers need to catch on to for making maps FUN! Still PLENTY challenging though. I died a lot, but pressed on and never got hung up in any one spot for a long, tedious amount of time.

Great use of realm667 resources! Monster selection is great. All feel very DOOM-y. No crappy Heretic monsters. Wise move.

I... actually... enjoyed the plot too. Hitting that other-lift switch at the start really gave me a sense of what kind of evil I was up against. Then the conversation with the guy on the radio... sending team... quite well written.

I got stuck after the red key though. I headed back and returned to the two red DOOR1's with the double-ICKDOORs behind. There were switches in those two rooms, but they didn't work. Am I missing something, or is this a bug for the version of ZDoom I have?

I would suggest making enhanced cacos the same species as cacos, so that their balls don't hurt each other. seems kind of silly having them infight since they both spit the same thing.

Had a tough time in the first big warehouse figuring out what to do, too. The radio doesn't really stand out among all the pretty other details.

Beautiful stuff. Fun as hell. I wish I had gotten farther. Where are levels 1-6???

NT

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killer2 said:

Make that radio conversation skippable,I don't want to hear it each time I change versions.If you wonder how,ask The Ultimate Doomer.He had a lot of cutscenes skipped in his mod (Serpent:Resurrection).Btw any chance this project will be completed?If all the maps will be of the same quality this will be a blast to play.
EDIT:It seems to me that some sounds don't play/play too late.Could someone do some research?By sounds I mostly mean firing sounds.


I will have to learn how to do skippable sequences, and give some thought to doing this radio conversation. I may leave it in, just because (provided you are not betatesting a bunch of versions) you only have to go through it once, and you get an autosave at the end of it. we will see tho. I was thinking of writing that conversation into the introtext for the level, so that radio conversation doesn't need to be in the level at all. Might be a simpler solution.

And in regards to this project being completed, I can guarantee that episode 1 will come out (the first seven levels), as the maps are finished.

In regards to the not playing/playing late for the sounds, this has been an issue for a long time for me, and I haven't been able to come up with any real solutions. Here are a couple of things to try tho.
1)in the sound options menu, increase the number of sound channels to at least 32. (This seems to help a little)

2)These next two settings you will find in the advanced sound options menu. In truth I would leave both of these on 'default' as increasing (or decreasing) either of them results in really bad sound latency and actually makes things much worse, at least for me. Try them tho, see what works for you.

This explanation from the ZDoom wiki:

* Buffer size (Default/64 samples/128 samples/256 samples/512 samples/1024 samples/2048 samples/4096 samples)

snd_buffersize
Defines how many samples are buffered. If the sample rate is below 44100 Hz, long sound latencies may happen unless the buffer size is increased. The default size corresponds to 1024 samples.

* Buffer count (Default/2—12 by 1 increments)

snd_buffercount
Defines how many buffers are used. The default number corresponds to 4.

gggmork said:

Here's a 59:29 zdoom 2.5.0 demo beating version 2 if interested (didn't get all secrets, does something cool happen if you get all the secret switches?). Hardest/most luck based part for me was elite commandos. Its probably better to play with saves rather than doing it in one go as a demo because there's some lucky parts and most requires knowledge of what will happen and its long so one small slip up could mean restarting from the beginning (and sitting through the start "cutscene" again).

http://www.speedyshare.com/files/27932427/mcmap07v2-5929-exitButNotMax-zd250--ggg.lmp


Yes. something cool does happen if you get all secret switches...

Spoiler

You get a plasma gun and several hundred rounds of plasma in a crate for the final fight

Yeah, that elite commando section is pretty tough. But you do get a big heads up, so hopefully that tells you to pull out your biggest gun, so as you at least have a fighting chance.

Thanks for the demo, will watch it soon. :)

NaturalTvventy said:

Damn. This is seriously the best level I have played in a long, long time. It's exactly the type of gameplay I enjoy. Huge battles, but with strategy as well. sniping all those hitscanners with rockets across the large warehouse... awesome. Plenty of ammo and health, something that other mappers need to catch on to for making maps FUN! Still PLENTY challenging though. I died a lot, but pressed on and never got hung up in any one spot for a long, tedious amount of time.

Great use of realm667 resources! Monster selection is great. All feel very DOOM-y. No crappy Heretic monsters. Wise move.

I... actually... enjoyed the plot too. Hitting that other-lift switch at the start really gave me a sense of what kind of evil I was up against. Then the conversation with the guy on the radio... sending team... quite well written.

I got stuck after the red key though. I headed back and returned to the two red DOOR1's with the double-ICKDOORs behind. There were switches in those two rooms, but they didn't work. Am I missing something, or is this a bug for the version of ZDoom I have?

I would suggest making enhanced cacos the same species as cacos, so that their balls don't hurt each other. seems kind of silly having them infight since they both spit the same thing.

Had a tough time in the first big warehouse figuring out what to do, too. The radio doesn't really stand out among all the pretty other details.

Beautiful stuff. Fun as hell. I wish I had gotten farther. Where are levels 1-6???

NT


Thanks heaps for the comments NT. Much appreciated. I am really sorry those switches behind the red key doors didn't work. Which version of the map were you playing? I have checked the most recent version and they work. I don't think anyone else has come across this issue, could be a compatibility issue perhaps? Which version of ZDoom are you using?

In regards to the cacodemons infighting, you are probably right. Though I must admit, I like them infighting, so I might make the enhanced cacos have different color lightning balls, so it makes more sense for them to infight. Hmmm. Which means I will have to define a new actor, and my DECORATE sux. Thanks tho, it is a good point you make.

And in regards to the radio near the start, several other people have mentioned the same thing, so I will make it much more obvious in future versions.

Thanks dude. :)

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Ok, I watched yout demo gggmork, and I see that those switches behind the red key doors did not work for you. NaturalTwenty said exactly the same thing.

So I just went back and loaded up the 3 different versions of my map, with ZDoom 2.5.0, checked everything, and those switches work fine for me. Nothing wrong with them. And yet they clearly didn't work for you guys.

Identical map versions. Identical ZDoom versions. And different results. This is pretty bizarre.

Sorry about those switches guys. I am gonna go post a bug report, as this cannot be something wrong with the map itself.

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The obvious question then is, "to what are your compatibility options set?" Because when I hear about switches behind something not working, I think of this. Turn it off and try again (this can be changed and take effect immediately during the game, if you have a save made just in front of these switches).

If that's indeed the culprit, adding "compat_useblocking = 0" in the map's MAPINFO definition (or compat_useblocking 0 if the MAPINFO is in the old syntax) should be enough to fix the issue forever regardless of user settings for this map.

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Thanks Gez.

Ok I have just had a look at the switches, and yes, there are impassable lines 5 units in front of the switch (to stop the player getting caught in the switch alcove) and 13 units in front of the switch there is a "transfer ceiling brightness" special (action 211) on a linedef. So it is probably the special on the line which would cause this, and not the impassable lines which would block yes?

Ok. I have just gone in and checked this with the compat_useblocking set to true and to false, and Gez, you were correct. The switch works when it is set to false, and doesn't work when it is set to true. Which explains everything.

Once again, thanks Gez for this, I will go fix this up.

And sorry everyone else for this causing the level to be broken if you happened to have that compat setting set to true.

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I probably shouldn't be playing modern zdoom levels in doom(strict) mode! You can set that in the MAPINFO. I'm gonna jump further into this thing tonight after work for sure!

NT

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KiiiYiiiKiiiA said:

Spoiler

You get a plasma gun and several hundred rounds of plasma in a crate for the final fight

Spoiler

You might consider a BFG...I mean cmon,that's 6 switches,you might at least give the player a little something special!

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