Doug Church speculates on the future of gaming in 2004

[lazygecko]

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/2168/the_state_of_church_doug_church_.php

Interesting article in retrospect. In a nutshell he predicts the commercial console market completely eclipsing the PC equivalent, the "AAA" games focusing more on copying the hollywood blockbuster experience rather than just being fun games to play, and the rising popularity of smaller social and independent games on the PC.

I do ask myself more and more these days why certain games being released just couldn't have been made into movies instead. Especially single player FPS campaigns today feel more like 90's FMV games or railshooters.

[KwadDamyj]

Did he give a predicted release date for Duke Nukem Forever? :P

[ManCannon]

I guess it's accurate, even the indipendednt games part (minecraft)

[chungy]

I guess it's right about the AAA games, which is probably exactly why the indie devs have taken over (not to mention iPhone and Android coming close to eclipsing the entire Nintendo DS and PSP markets).

[Planky]

Had the PSP released more casual/indie style games that you can now get on Iphone/Android, I would have never sold mine. Everything available were unoriginal rehashes of existing Playstation games.

[chungy]

More or less the same with the Nintendo DS (I sold mine a few years ago, never have regretted it).

[Technician]

Planky said:

Had the PSP released more casual/indie style games that you can now get on Iphone/Android, I would have never sold mine. Everything available were unoriginal rehashes of existing Playstation games.

Do they even make PSPs anymore? I remember trying to make a flash game around it's on button browser configuration. That system sucked cock.

[Xeros612]

Planky said:

Had the PSP released more casual/indie style games that you can now get on Iphone/Android, I would have never sold mine. Everything available were unoriginal rehashes of existing Playstation games.

That's the first time I've heard of anyone wanting more casualization in the game market.

[Mr. T]

Xeros612 said:

That's the first time I've heard of anyone wanting more casualization in the game market.

On a handheld, sure. I don't want to stare at a tiny a$$ screen for hours and hours grinding to get to level 302 or whatever. If you do you have problems (or are a huge nerd)

[Planky]

Xeros612 said:

That's the first time I've heard of anyone wanting more casualization in the game market.

Only in one particular area. Mr T nails it though: The games available on consoles/PCs do not translate well to portable gaming devices. The exceptions are indie games, or small well thought out games unique to the device. I love games that I can pick up and play for a while; not something I have to devote hours to. When I went looking for these types of games, the only ones I could find were LocoRoco and a scattering of others.

This will likely change a bit with the PSP Go and switching to a download model rather than the horrible UMDs; but becoming a publisher for PSP games is not easy and out of question for most indies'.

Does make me wish I had jailbroken my PSP though, most of my issues with it would have been gone in an instant.

[DoomUK]

Doug Church said:

PC gaming in the sense of 'I'm gonna go play this new racing game on the PC' is likely to be gone for a while. The controls aren't as good, it's just a different experience. You might as well crank it on your home stereo, have the big screen and have your cars screaming around the corner. It just works really well-- in a way that it doesn't on a monitor with a mouse

Uh... Spend a few bucks on a usb joypad? Hook your PC or notebook up to your HDTV via HDMI, or DVI or even via VGA if your video card is a little out of date? How complicated is that?

I don't want to sound all pro-PC-fuck-consoles-they're-only-for-noobs & poorfags, because I'm not, but the "PC's don't work for games which don't work with a mouse and keyboard" argument is the silliest, most petty and apocryphal way of trying to justify why consoles are better for racing games et all, which therefore means that consoles are a more sensible choice of market.

EDIT: Unless you belong to this "elitist" mentality of certain PC gamers who snobbishly think that ALL PC games MUST be played with a mouse and keyboard. Then, that argument could work for you I guess :/

Perhaps he's changed his view in more recent times though. But I swear people still think this way.

[ManCannon]

The handheld market is more for children, i don't really want to play games when i am out of the house. When i am at home, if i want to play with something small, i can just have a wank.

[chungy]

DoomUK said:

Uh... Spend a few bucks on a usb joypad? Hook your PC or notebook up to your HDTV via HDMI, or DVI or even via VGA if your video card is a little out of date? How complicated is that?

I don't want to sound all pro-PC-fuck-consoles-they're-only-for-noobs & poorfags, because I'm not, but the "PC's don't work for games which don't work with a mouse and keyboard" argument is the silliest, most petty and apocryphal way of trying to justify why consoles are better for racing games et all, which therefore means that consoles are a more sensible choice of market.

EDIT: Unless you belong to this "elitist" mentality of certain PC gamers who snobbishly think that ALL PC games MUST be played with a mouse and keyboard. Then, that argument could work for you I guess :/

Indeed, I've actually got not just one, but two Xbox 360 controllers plugged into my computer at all times. The standard one you linked as well as the Street Fighter IV-themed pad, and with both of those, I have pretty much every kind of optimal control scheme for any game ever; keyboard/mouse, standard X360 pad (analog sticks are the big use), and the SF4 pad (where a D-Pad is more useful).

[Csonicgo]

chungy said:

More or less the same with the Nintendo DS (I sold mine a few years ago, never have regretted it).

Then you never really played it, did you?

In Japan, the DSi is kind of a big deal.

[lazygecko]

The USB controller argument is true, but his point was about the overall accessibility of consoles. Even that is gradually being thrown out the window today though with installs appearing on consoles as well.

I pretty much bailed out from consoles completely when the last generation shift happened in 05 and 06. I've been mainly a PC gamer since the mid 90's, but there was always something interesting and different offered by the Japanese-dominant console market. In this generation though the former PC-centered western devs searched for greener pastures on consoles and have pushed out Japanese devs to near irrelevancy. Coupled with the rising dev budgets, they've focused more on the domestic market and handheld games where development is cheaper. Not even sure if that's going to last, with the new gen of handhelds coming out and costs rising from that.

What we're getting on consoles today is more or less inferior variants on what we used to play on the PC, while stuff like Demon's Souls or Bayonetta are going extinct at this rate. It's a pretty sad turn of events.

[chungy]

Csonicgo said:

Then you never really played it, did you?

Don't make such silly assumptions. I played it a ton, and in particular with Mario Kart DS I had probably put in well over 100 hours into the game. But it grew stale and there was a definite lack of any new original games to hold interest. After a few months of the system collecting dust, I sold it off.

[The Lag]

i don't have an HDTV :(

[Xeros612]

DoomUK said:

stuff about controllers and tv hookup

Agreed. Plus, they make steering wheel & pedal setups that hook up to PCs. (I personally want to get some nice joystick setups so I can properly play MechWarrior, but that's beside the point.)

As for the eastern market "dying down", I think it really has more to do with the Japanese's game quirks not being as popular over here as they once were.

[Jodwin]

chungy said:

More or less the same with the Nintendo DS (I sold mine a few years ago, never have regretted it).

The DS has the single best game ever made

[hex11]

Jodwin said:

The DS has the single best game ever made

I haven't played E.O. but I'd wager the best NDS RPG has got to be this one:
http://ds.ign.com/articles/973/973757p1.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dark_Spire

Pure old school RPG style gaming, a la Wizardry, etc. No fancy anime graphics. Heck, you can even run it in "8-bit" mode and the graphics & music actually feel authentic!

And the tunes are quite good btw (Castlevania-ish, just like the review page says...)

[Csonicgo]

chungy said:

Don't make such silly assumptions. I played it a ton, and in particular with Mario Kart DS I had probably put in well over 100 hours into the game. But it grew stale and there was a definite lack of any new original games to hold interest. After a few months of the system collecting dust, I sold it off.

DSi was made to remedy this.

[hervoheebo]

Pretty much the only games I have bought in the last few years have been the semi-yearly Pokemon releases and, was it 2009? Borderlands. And boy have I regretted that. Let's see:

-HIDEOUS consolitis. The amount of tweaks you have to do it unbelievable. For instance, the default FOV is 70 (!!) and can't be changed in the settings. You can make a bind for it in the INIs but in multiplayer the FOV resets when you sprint.

-DLC bullshit. Enough said.

-NO benefits for buying the game. If you buy, you have to deal with SecuRom and CD check. If you pirate, you don't. There's not even a CD key! Pirates can play online with everyone else (with characters hosted locally, so basically in DII terms it's open battle.net which is SAYING SOMETHING)

-"GOTY EDITION"! Hey, you who bought the game at launch? Yeah, fuck you. We'll rerelease the game a year later WITH all the DLC AND a DNF demo, AND reduced price!

-A huge amount of bugs. 99% unfixed as of now.

Then there's Portal 2 and Valve. Consolitis ("don't turn off your console while saving"), cash shop, promo BS, Hat Fortress integration, cash shop. Why is Nintendo the only developer/publisher with relatively sane ideology nowadays?

[Mr. T]

I don't understand why games have such narrow FOVs nowadays. Pretty much anything under 90 (vertical FOV 65) gives me headaches. You also can't see shit.

[Jodwin]

hex11 said:

Pure old school RPG style gaming, a la Wizardry, etc.

The same goes for EO, in fact, EO inspired Dark Spire by reviving the old school first person dungeon crawling genre on modern platforms. As for graphics, that's just presentation rather than actual gameplay subject matter. EO is particularly bright and cheerful in its presentation and the only classic fantasy monster it features is a few post game dragon bosses, so that might put some people off (no orcs, no undead, etc), but the gameplay is still extremely solid and challenging.

[KwadDamyj]

I mainly don't play new games due to lacking the time/money.

I have quite a few games on Steam, but they're all gifts from friends.

I also am not quite certain what everyone is talking about when they criticize AAA titles. :/ I liked the first Call of Duty Modern Warfare, but...Not the second one. Except for "Wolverines". That was a good level. Too bad levels like the Rio ones and that shootout at the cabin didn't follow suit, and that the plot was completely nuts.

[lazygecko]

My problem with those kinds of games is that the developers put you in their super-linear rollercoaster ride, hand-holding and invisible walls galore makes sure the player is confined to experience their overscripted set pieces and play through it in the only way they allow you to. I was tired of that type of experience even before MW1 was out.

[KwadDamyj]

Ah, okay. Fair enough.

I am more fond of sandboxy stuff like Deus Ex and Garry's Mod anyway when it comes to modern games.

[scalliano]

@hervoheebo: Portal 2's class, wind yer neck in :P

What I will say is that Nintendo seem to be the only games company left who recognizes the existence of the human need for social interaction.

Why is the Wii so successful? The controller(s)? Nope. Getting oul' grannies to play bowling? Nope. The answer is simple and can be summed up in three words:

LOCAL

FUCKING

MULTIPLAYER.

The reason console FPS's don't have a split-screen option anymore has dick-all to do with hardware capabilities. If you have 4 people in a room playing spilt-screen deathmatch, that's four seperate players leeching off the one copy of the game. Much better to force the online option (or maybe LAN if you're REALLY lucky) as it guarantees four times the sales revenue.

If a system with 4MB RAM can handle four-player DM (such as the N64), there is NO EXCUSE not to have it on today's powerhouses. Nintendo know this, hence the Goldeneye re-issue.

I hate online gaming. There, I've said it. Once it was a fun luxury, now it is the absolute centrepoint of almost every game out there - forcing the player to grind an unfeasible amount of hours just to gain acces to features that the SP campaign grants within a day.

[chungy]

hervoheebo said:

[stuff about borderlands]

Agree, I bought it last week when the GOTY version was $7 on Steam. Oh god it's horrible... the game itself is ok but just to make it run and control decently is such a chore. I've pretty much lost faith in Duke Nukem Forever knowing these fucktards are at the helm (I'm still keeping my preorder, but... eh).

Then there's Portal 2 and Valve. Consolitis ("don't turn off your console while saving"), cash shop, promo BS, Hat Fortress integration, cash shop. Why is Nintendo the only developer/publisher with relatively sane ideology nowadays?

I've seen that about Portal 2, and it makes me even more glad I have not bought it. As for Nintendo, I disagree heavily, the guys that claim that games cheaper than $50 are a "threat to an industry" (as well as making that teh standard price for 3DS games now x_x). No, the sane developers are indie developers, the ones that put actual love and care into the design of their games.

[KwadDamyj]

Gee, awfully bitter here, people. :/ (Then again, I haven't owned a console since the Gamecube out of sheer boredom.)

Kinda agree about the Portal 2 marketing blitz being overwhelming. At least I have yet to be bombarded with memes so far