Former humans - Armour or not

[dsm]

Um, I don't think this topic has been discussed before (haven't seen it discussed before) and I *hope* this topic isn't what Lord Flathead regards as a "useless" topic (if it is, please kill me now), but I was thinking about how strange I found it that former humans seemingly wear armour in the old games, but most of them just take like 2-4 bullets to kill, while the player takes at least 10 bullets to kill without armour.

So the actual topic I would like to discuss is about the former humans in "Doom 3" - the former human in the Quakecon video doesn't seem to be wearing armour, so I was thinking: Maybe some of them should be wearing armour and be tougher to kill, whereas most of them early on in the game shouldn't be carrying any armour and would thus be as weak as the former human troops in the old game.

[Lord FlatHead]

I *hope* this topic isn't what Lord Flathead regards as a "useless" topic (if it is, please kill me now)

The Lord works in mysterious ways. But he's not that strict.

[Dark-tenshi]

the former human was attacked by the demon,the armour has been damaged and no longer be the protection for the one who wearing it.but it still should not be killed by only 3-4 shot as stated above.also if the player kill the former human who had armor in good condition.should it be dropped and can be picked it up.

various kind of former human(pistol,shotgun,chaingun) is welcome.but the one in Mac video kinda remind me of Resident evil's or Rtcw's zombie.should id make former human "bite" the player?

[dsm]

but it still should not be killed by only 3-4 shot as stated above.

I actually disagree on this. I want at least some of the troopers to be weak. I don't want to feel like I'm playing Quake where a grunt takes TWO shotgun blasts to kill.

I prefer weak humanoid soldiers for a change, but then they should be all the more harder to hit.

[Naked Snake]

If ID is smart they would do SOMETHING to make the enemies seem a little varied.

Zombieman with rifle
Zombieman with armor, rifle
Zombie man with helmet, rifle, armor

Repeat that with replacing rifle with shotgun, chaingun, stuff like that, ya know?

[dsm]

Hm, I'd be highly satisfied if it's like this:
Former human with side-arm.
Former human with side-arm AND assault rifle
Former Human with side-arm, assault rifle AND armour
Former Human Sergeant with side-arm and shotgun
Former Human Sergeant with side-arm, shotgun and armour
Former Human Sergeant with Side-arm and DB shotgun
Former Human Sergeant with Side-arm, DB shotgun and armour
Former Human Commando with chaingun
Former Human Commando with plasma rifle.

[DooMBoy]

Well, I think if id wants to the game to be more realistic than previous incarnations, then the zombies should have some kind of armor.

[Sharessa]

I liked the variations they had between enemies they had in RtCW...that was pretty cool. It should be like that.

[Zaldron]

SOF2 is the king of humanoid enemies customization. I would love to see something like that. Agreed, it's not THAT necessary, but todays gamers like to pick on even the most meaningless details...

We're assholes. The whole deal about being inmersed in the game shatters as soon as we realize you can't destroy X or use Y or weapon Z's animations are incorrect, etc etc...

[Wobbo]

I'd like to expand this topic

Shouldnt enemies run out of ammo? If so what can they do about it? Running to a refueling place cant work because the player would have to be capable of that also. REmember we have to be to pick up whatever they drop or realism is compromised...

good post again

[Sharessa]

If you play right, enemies shouldn't run out of ammo before you kill them. :p

[Liam]

We're assholes. The whole deal about being inmersed in the game shatters as soon as we realize you can't destroy X or use Y or weapon Z's animations are incorrect, etc etc...

Heh, speak for yourself. I like Daikatana ^_^

One day I'll start a topic here expressing my opinions on this in full detail but basically, I don't give a rats ass if a game has 1000 different points of impact for each monster or if it has super quad-linear triangle bumpmapping mips. I don't always want a game to 'simulate' a real life experience ; I live in real life, and it just sucks sometimes.

[Zaldron]

I do like realism in my games, because what we ussually call "realism" is not about being killed on one shot, but how open to the user's behavior the game is, how good the player-world interaction works and how good common-logic applies to the virtual universe. You can make a fantasy game filled with super crazy comic-like plot twists and villains, and still make it realistic.

I might have "fun" in a game where you can slash open townsfold with my sword, but I'll be completely inmersed if in this game people runs in panic and guards show up to disarm me. I enjoy the killing of soldiers with a pistol, but if the game allows you to shoot his helmet, break the glass and turn his head into a red mess, grab his weapon and run akimbo, I'll be delighted. Provided in both cases the story is equally good for the crappy realism/realistic versions.

Arcadeish FPSs are dead. Maybe I shouldn't be saying this in a Doom forum, but any new game strictly following the Doom rules is too dull to be playable. DNF, Deus Ex 2, Thief III and Doom should be the next step, the kind of games that break the boundaries within the usual gaming cliches and transform this entertainment style in mainstream. Why would I want to watch a movie if this game lets me play it and is complex enough to recreate/modify any scene you want? People just don't take gaming serious because they see it's all about shooting and nothing more.

[dsm]

I agree with you Zal.
A "realistic" game isn't really realistic. It just GIVES the impression of being realistic and it provides the player with countless possibilities.

I wouldn't mind if the new Doom game has a somewhat "adventure" game-like feel to it (as long as it's not about solving annoying puzzles).

Off-topic: Hmmm, akimbo.....just curious, how many of you would actually loathe to be able to use two pistols in "Doom 3"?

[Dark-tenshi]

the boundary of the map is what make the game feel less realism in many case.in new game,most of the level should not be limited only behind the wall.much more believable environment is needed.

Off-topic: Hmmm, akimbo.....just curious, how many of you would actually loathe to be able to use two pistols in "Doom 3"?

Akimbo style looks a lot more hong-kong action movie styled.akimbo gun cause less accuracy and ammo wasted in some case.trained marine is likely to use only one gun at the time.IMO

[Zaldron]

Akimbo should be in. Afterall, all that "John Woo" style is a friggin cliche. You see a monster stomping at you, only 5 meters ahead. Accuracy doesn't matter, you must stop him at all costs. Two pistols is far more firepower than just one, you know ;)

[Dark-tenshi]

well,if in above case right.more fire power in some critical situation.

[doomsick]

should id make former human "bite" the player

absolutely! excellent idea! in every zombie movie all they want to do is eat people. and maybe, after being bit, then blowing away said zombie, you have a limited amount of time to find an antidote to prevent you from dying/becoming a zombie too.

[Zaldron]

and maybe, after being bit, then blowing away said zombie, you have a limited amount of time to find an antidote to prevent you from dying/becoming a zombie too.

That desinfection idea sounds good at first but it only adds to the frustation. You'll just load instead of actually looking for an antidote.

[dsm]

Akimbo in RtCW was really cool imho :-P

[Lord FlatHead]

Take a look at this scene from The Usual Suspects. And if you haven't seen the rest of the movie, do so NOW.

(This clip is about 900K and uses the DivX codec)

[pritch]

meh, I never did get where the CYberdemon magicked his rokets from, or where teh Spider Demon created millions of bullets :)

They should run out of ammo and seek replacements. They should be allowed to pick up medikits but you should be able to pick them up, choose not to use them, and hide them somewhere. Just hit p or something as you walk over it to pick it up, rather than use it.

Remember ROTT? They stold your guns in that, why not in Doom 3? It was cool, heh, imagine a Zombie with a BFG, ROFL

[Lord FlatHead]

I think you're confusing them with bots.

[Dark-tenshi]

that video is a cool thing about akimbo.if we can be able to shoot two differnt object at the same time...

also the shooter put the gun at the center when he shoot,so his aim may be least interfered by the gun recoil.(someone correct me if i'm wrong)

the usual suspect is a good film.i recommend it too

[DooMBoy]

I've always wondered about that. Like in Doom2, a Former Commando/Chaingunner/Whatever will fire at you for lie, friggin' eternity, and never, I mean never, run out of ammo. For that matter, none of the former humans run out of ammo. That's just too gay for my liking. I think yes they should run out of ammo eventually and take to smacking you with their weapons and biting you in the famous zombie tradition. They are zombies, right?
<Insert contemplative pause here>
For that matter, the zombies' aim shouldn't be quite so fiendishly accurate. They're undead, people!

[Sharessa]

Only the zombies should run out of ammo. THe cyberdemon and mastermind should be able to pull ammo out of thin air, but it would be cool to see them reload and such.

[dsm]

Does the cyberdemon really have to fire rockets?
I mean it's a demon for crying out loud. It would make sense to me if he fired some sort of explosive lava balls.

[Zaldron]

No Cyberdemon. C'mon, that's too easy. I want new bosses.

[Submerge]

I for one, would like to see a cyberdemonish monster, with four legs, two heads (one facing backwards), and a quadruple barreled plasma rifle, with rounds that leave a 3 second residual charge wherever they hit.

frankly I'd also like to see a double barreled raingun with single fire primary and full automatic double barrel secondary. But THAT's probably not gonna happen. ^_^

[dsm]

No Cyberdemon. C'mon, that's too easy. I want new bosses.

No Cyberdemon in "Doom 3"???
ARE YOU NUTS???
I'm sure that Id could do an awesome Cybie for the new game and I'd quite probably be somewhat dissapointed if the cybie isn't in there.

And I don't care what you think about the Cyberdemon "being cartoonish" or whatever you once said about it.