How to play megawads/multilevel wads

[xvertigox]

If you're playing through say AV/HR/Sunder/Icarus etc do you start each map from a pistol start or play through in order, keeping your weapons from previous maps? I assume it's largely down to personal preference but surely some wads are designed to play played one way or another, is there any sort of rule of thumb to help me find out what's the best way to play each wad?

[Lila Feuer]

Consecutive/progressive play is easier as you bring in more powerful weapons, additional ammo and items (extra health/armor) from previous maps. Likewise I have not once pistol started anything from scratch minus single maps (and the beginning of megawads, duh). It's a challenge I want to take up though. Single maps that are a part of a series I like to spice up by throwing them all together to play in one run (after I have done them all individually) via editing MAPINFO.

[xvertigox]

Yeah, that's what I figured, that it's more of an optional thing vs a design element. Are there any wads actually designed for pistol starts on each map? Sunder definitely seems to be.

[Grazza]

Most classic-style megawads are designed so that each map is playable from a pistol start (I can't think of any that aren't) - and weapons are available to make use of the ammo that is lying around. That's not to say that they will be easy that way - you may need to find some secrets or use a cunning route to make use of the resources that are available to you. You might also need to make good use of a berserk, if available.

Obviously, if you play them carrying your weapons from the previous level, they will tend to be easier, and you may not appreciate some subtleties in the map's balance and object placement. A boobytrapped SSG won't be such a clever trick if you already have one, for instance.

If you want to experience the gameplay the level author "orchestrated", then play from a pistol start.

Zdoom wads tend to be designed with the assumption that the player won't have disabled autosaving, and so will have stuff carried over from the previous level(s).

[xvertigox]

...you may not appreciate some subtleties in map's balance and object placement. A boobytrapped SSG won't be such a clever trick if you already have one, for instance.

Exactly my worry and the reason why I made this read.

If you want to experience the gameplay the level author "orchestrated", then play from a pistol start.

That's what I was looking for, thanks for your help guys. I guess it's time to go play some Doom~

[Megamur]

I generally just keep the weapons I had from the previous level. What's the point of having multiple levels in a row if you're supposed to play them one-by-one? Some WADs, like Eternity (Serenity II), become somewhat unfair if you do pistol starts with every level, and are specifically designed to be played in sequence.

However, some MegaWADs, like Community Chest and the 1024 maps, are pretty much designed as map "collections" instead of one long, continuous game, and you're pretty much meant to do pistol starts with all of them.

[Xeros612]

I play them like I play the campaign of any game: progressively. I generally don't like to play by imaginary rules for any reason, so I'm not going to force a pistol start on myself (unless it's like my somewhat recent playthrough of the beginning of E4, in which pistol starting E4M2 left me better off on everything than continuing from E4M1 would have).

[Megamur]

I think the basic gaming rules apply here: it's a video game. It's designed for entertainment purposes. Play it whatever way would entertain you the most, not the way other people think you should.

[xvertigox]

I wasn't asking about arbitrary rules, I was asking if most large mapsets were designed specifically for pistol starts or as a continous game. That being said making up rules for yourself is quite a lot of fun (I had a blast and half playing through quake using only the axe on nightmare).

p.s: arg sunder, why are you so hard. There seems to be a specific way each map was designed to be beaten..

[Melon]

I've never understood mapsets that don't work from a pistol start, isn't that way more effort to set up? Designing around pistol starts also lets people just warp directly to the level they want to play without having to keep a mass of save files or worse, play through the entire wad just to get back to that point.

Did you know that the original Doom and Doom 2 were designed to be played from pistol starts? I'd advise starting there. Most people who hate Sandy Petersen levels most likely haven't pistol started them. They're an entirely different experience. Just ensure you turn on the lost soul limit or map09 will kick your ass, and get used to the fact that sometimes you just have to run away from monsters to scout out weapons and ammo then come back later.

[vdgg]

Memento Mori, Memento Mori II, Requiem, STRAIN can be played consecutively, carrying weapons from previous maps (pistol starts, too, obviously). For example, you have 2 cell packs on MAP05 from MM, yet no plasma rifle (you find it on MAP14 or if you know the secrets well, on MAP07). I think all four WADs are extremely well balanced in this aspect. The pattern they share is:
- First SSG usually around MAP04
- First rocket launcher around MAP07 (requiem MAP05, strain MAP10)
- No plasma in the first 10 maps, except the super-mega secret plasma on MM, MAP07
- Some pickups at the level exits, e.g. STRAIN MAP22 has some ammo.

[Maes]

Grazza said:

Most classic-style megawads are designed so that each map is playable from a pistol start (I can't think of any that aren't)

Not properly a Megawad, but the mini-episode (two levels) Dead Base + Mountain of Fire are meant to be played in sequence and to bring in ammo from the former to the latter, otherwise there's simply not enough of it.

[myk]

xvertigox said:
If you're playing through say AV/HR/Sunder/Icarus etc do you start each map from a pistol start or play through in order, keeping your weapons from previous maps?

For me it depends on a few factors. I don't agree that it's necessary to play each level from scratch to appreciate what the authors created, unless they failed to pay attention to the overall balance, which is a design flaw or at least a gap in the design. To explain what I mean, I will describe what I do with different types of level sets and why:

If I feel the level set is not too harsh and was made in a centralized or coherent fashion (one or two guys or a closely knit group with a vision), I'll attempt to play each episode without interruption. In DOOM II, the episodes are marked by the three skies, so I would, for example, finish episode 1 at level 11 and quit, starting episode 2 from scratch. A per-episode approach offers a good number of levels for an immersive experience, without potentially getting too drawn out. If I die on any level, I quit momentarily and start again from the level I died at, with the pistol, 50 bullets and normal health. In these level sets there's generally a chance that I will die, but it's not guaranteed, so the level by level experience grants a good deal of suspense without any real frustration. Since the levels aren't too hard, I can also recover relatively well if I die somewhere along the way and lose equipment.

If the level set is rather deadly (and I'll almost certainly die more than once per level) or if the levels just seem like a compilation of otherwise independent levels (like some community projects) I play each level separately, restarting with the pistol when killed but never crossing from one level to another. In one case (deadly levels) playing per level removes worries about dying after having acquired a lot of stuff, changing the pace too much. In the other, since the levels weren't designed to be played in a row, the chances are they will not be enjoyable that way.

A single set may be playable one way (consecutively) or the other (per level) at different skill settings. Stuff like Hell Revealed or Alien Vendetta would work best per level at skill 4, but could be fine for consecutive play on skills 2 or 3.

If a level set was made to be played consecutively (like Castle Phobos) because some items gained in earlier levels are required to use essential ammo on later levels, then I'll try to play the whole way without dying. If I die, I restart from level 1. These sets can't be too hard. If they're very deadly form me and require consecutive play, they're not really playable (perhaps skill 1 might work, since it halves damage and doubles ammo.) Essentially, these episodes are just one big level. That's not necessarily wrong because a huge level equivalent to all of them would be about the same. It's generally better if each such level is not very linear in itself, because a set of levels can't be as nonlinear as a single big one. A string of linear levels would provide a very linear (and probably annoying) experience overall.

If I really have to quit mid-level in any case, for some reason, it's as if I had died. I just quit and start the level I was on (or level 1 in the last case above) from scratch. This is so that I can also record demos when I play through, in all cases. Not only can I view my raw "exploratory" experiences with these, and easily notice how many times I died in the attempt (as I quit after each death) but they also leave a registry of what I've played.

I didn't always use this method, and in the past didn't record and sometimes used saves to stop at midpoint or even replay potions, but this saveless and recorded method is more enjoyable, reinforcing the act of "being someplace" every time I play, and it leaves a clearer impression of play balance.

In coop games, I allow myself to die, as you can respawn while the level doesn't restart, but I also tend to record there, except in public online servers, which I don't join too often and where I only play on stuff I'm pretty familiar with.

You asked that we give an idea of how level sets are best played instead of saying how we each choose to do so, but to me that has to do with how they are experienced, so the "rules" and the "level requirements" can't be defined without each other.

[purist]

My favoured method of playing megawads is to play progressively/consecutively but without saves. That way I "earn" an increased arsenal etc for each map I complete without dying but I lose my full collection if I die and I have to start the map I had got upto with a pistol start. I'll only save part way through a level if I'm done playing and want to come back later.

The problem with this are long levels. I don't mind having to start again two or three times but if I'm being consistently killed in the same spot 2/3rds of the way through a level that takes 10-15 minutes to reach that point it gets a bit tiring and in that case I might save to avoid the frustration.

[40oz]

I carry me weapons over to the next map, and if i die, i pistol start it. Instead of saving i just remember what map i left off and IDCLEV it.

[DuckReconMajor]

^ I do that a lot, but sometimes I'll save when I turn the game off, which is why ZDoom's autoload makes me mad. You can disable autosave, but if you save manually, you'll start there when you die.

[hex11]

Instead of using save slots, I -warp to the map and start with pistol & fists. If that's not doable, then I use the IDKFA cheat once, at the beginning. If I can't complete the map (without saving at some point in the middle of it), then that's the end of the road on that megawad for me, unless I can manage on lower difficulty settings.

[hex11]

myk said:

If I die, I restart from level 1.

That's like the ironman of Doom! I like the idea, but I'm not very good, and wouldn't get close to completing any megawads.

Of course, I still haven't won Rogue yet.

[Lila Feuer]

So now we're talking about saves.

I'll play three ways. Save anytime (effortless). Save only when you obtain a key (challenging) which can vary from 1-3 saves a map or none at all. The latter being no mid-level saves at all (hardcore) beyond the start save, and if you die, redo the map all over again.

Never tried playing until I died (endurance).

[elic]

I always play continuously and only save after completing a map, even with community such as the community chest series. Whats the point of the maps being part of a megawad if your not supposed to carry weapons over?
To rebel against the system, I'm making both my CC4 maps designed not to be played from a pistol start.

[DuckReconMajor]

Cyanosis said:

Never tried playing until I died

Speaking of this I have sort of unintentionally done some "realistic" runs of wads, where I play until I die, then quit and never touch it again.

[Megamur]

Processingcontrol said:

I always play continuously and only save after completing a map, even with community such as the community chest series. Whats the point of the maps being part of a megawad if your not supposed to carry weapons over?

My feelings exactly.

To rebel against the system, I'm making both my CC4 maps designed not to be played from a pistol start.

Hm. Could be troublesome, but it'd be an interesting change of pace.

[DuckReconMajor]

Processingcontrol said:

I always play continuously and only save after completing a map, even with community such as the community chest series. Whats the point of the maps being part of a megawad if your not supposed to carry weapons over?

So you don't have to play every map before it to get to one you want to play.

Processingcontrol said:

To rebel against the system, I'm making both my CC4 maps designed not to be played from a pistol start.

I think that'll just make people upset more than anything.

[Joshy]

Processingcontrol said:

I always play continuously and only save after completing a map, even with community such as the community chest series. Whats the point of the maps being part of a megawad if your not supposed to carry weapons over?
To rebel against the system, I'm making both my CC4 maps designed not to be played from a pistol start.

I would highly recommend not to do this (In fact, I'm sure The Green Herring would not allow this anyway). You'd especially aggravate demo-recorders since they record all demos with pistol-starts.

Besides, all maps should have the option of allowing the players to either carry over the weapons or pistol start. Best of both worlds IMO.

[elic]

They're possible from a pistol start, but just more challenging. There's also ammo without weapons that use it.

DuckReconMajor said:

So you don't have to play every map before it to get to one you want

So then why should they be in a megawad in the first place? They might as well be all released seperatly.

The only place I understand this is contest megawads such as 10 sectors.

[DuckReconMajor]

You've never gone back and read a certain part of a book you liked? Watched one part of a movie? Yeah, it adds to the experience to do the whole thing, but there is nothing wrong with just wanting to go to one part.

[Megamur]

DuckReconMajor said:

You've never gone back and read a certain part of a book you liked? Watched one part of a movie? Yeah, it adds to the experience to do the whole thing, but there is nothing wrong with just wanting to go to one part.

It's not quite the same, since people aren't skipping to their favorite parts. They're still playing all the levels, in order, but resetting their supplies each level. It certainly boosts the challenge (well, unless you had no health when you finished the previous map), but it just seems strange.

[DuckReconMajor]

One big reason is that when you die you have to pistol re-start. If it's not possible from a pistol start then when you die you're pretty much screwed.

[Megamur]

Right, the game would be broken if you died and couldn't continue without your old supplies. But just because levels are designed to be beatable from pistol starts doesn't mean you have to do it that way.

[DuckReconMajor]

and vice versa