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Andy Olivera

The DooMed Speed Demos Archive returns!

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83 demos this week, including the last of the Compet-N demos. The integration is complete!

Memfis: Compet-N has (always?) had a few built demos (back when built meant LMPC), but I don't think they were ever awarded points, so I should probably remove the CN designation. Thanks for the reminder.

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Andy Olivera said:

83 demos this week, including the last of the Compet-N demos. The integration is complete!

Memfis: Compet-N has (always?) had a few built demos (back when built meant LMPC), but I don't think they were ever awarded points, so I should probably remove the CN designation. Thanks for the reminder.


Awesome about Compet-N integration being finished! Although I don't see stx-Vile's Doom episode 1 UV-Speed on there (of all the runs, heh).

What's next? :D

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Andy Olivera said:

The integration is complete!

What??   Eeeee *jump* *jump* *jump* *jump* *jump* *jump* *jump* *jump* *jump* *jump* *jump* *jump* *jump* *jump*

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Doom2 Map11
Two top coop entries by kOeGy and termrork have the same files.

Scythe Map02
Tyson category is redundant, there are no obtainable weapons besides berserk.

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Scythe Map02
Tyson category is redundant, there are no obtainable weapons besides berserk.

Tyson = no need for 100% secrets, so Springy's and Plut's demos are there for a reason.

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Oh, right, my bad, sorry!
>for a reason.
They are slower than Gusta's max and was recorded years later.
What is the reason then? =)

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30 demos this week.

4shock & Ancalagon: Added Vile's D1EP1 UV Speed and D2ALL NM100 records. Thanks!

GrumpyCat: Duplicate demo removed. Thanks!

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Awesome to see Vile's Knee Deep run finally up on DSDA, that speedrun is def a work of art.

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I was informed that my Hellbound (Hellbnd.wad) MAP14 demo would not run on any of the beta versions or the idgames version of the .wad. I checked the demo on my copy of the .wad and it works fine. So I was asked to provide the copy of my MAP14 in my Hellbnd.wad so that the demo was able to be ran successfully by others.

A .zip containing my copy of MAP14 is here: http://1drv.ms/1KnA7CT
(too big to attach on forums)

Also for MAP29 of Hellbound my demo needs to be run with the extra "HBFM29.wad" provided with "Hellbnd.wad" for the full version of that map, but it isn't noted on the demo page.

Also, I didn't even know my stuff was on DSDA! The more you know...

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17 demos this week.

Rayzik: Ahh, it looks like hellbnd is another sf2012/ur compatibility fiasco. I've checked all the current demos against the most recent version (2013-09) and there are 23 that desync! There are at least five versions of the WAD available, so I need to do more testing to figure out which ones I need to include at the DSDA. What's the datestamp on the version you used?

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The version of alt.wad on DSDA is an outdated version (May 6, 2012) compared to the one on idgames (December 2, 2012). My map 1 UV Max demo of this level will desync with this new version.

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This one is going to be long, so I'll make it three posts for better readability.

HELLBOUND

Andy Olivera said:

Rayzik: Ahh, it looks like hellbnd is another sf2012/ur compatibility fiasco. I've checked all the current demos against the most recent version (2013-09) and there are 23 that desync! There are at least five versions of the WAD available, so I need to do more testing to figure out which ones I need to include at the DSDA.

I don't think targeting the 2013-09 version is the right way to go about it. Every single demo on the page for that version plays back to the intermission screen with the 2013-06/idgames version; yes, that includes even the GZDoom pigeon droppings.

So it seems like all extant Hellbound demos on DSDA were recorded with the 2013-06 WAD, which makes it the definitive version. If the author couldn't be bothered to update the /idgames upload, surely the changes were not all that important. Thus there's no reason to maintain a separate page for the 2013-09, in fact it would only make things worse by confusing people and encouraging them to record incompatible demos — a case of "latest !== greatest".

Quite apart from that, having separate pages for different versions of the same WAD is IMO counter-intuitive, confusing and non-user-friendly. I think the sf2012 page is a good example of the right way to handle this issue. Sure, it looks a little cluttered with all those "Plays with ..." comments, but that seems to me much preferable to a user looking at the hellbnd (2013-09) page and thinking "whoa, nobody ever recorded on Hellbound's MAP02 — must be a hell of a hard/buggy map!"

Andy Olivera said:

What's the datestamp on the version you used?

I don't know if Rayzik reads this forum (that post was his first here), but as it was I who brought the MAP14 and MAP29 desyncs to his attention I think I can help. From our PM exchanges it appears that his hellbnd.wad (2013-08-22, CRC32 1053A758) doesn't correspond to any publicly available version; to complicate things, his MAP14 run's timestamp is 18 days earlier. The WAD he recorded his demopak on was most likely the /idgames (2013-06) version, but with HBFM29.WAD merged in and the nodes rebuilt (he doesn't remember why, so it was probably accidental) on MAP14. I think you accounted for these differences on the 2013-06 page quite nicely even without this extra info. ;)

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ARMADOSIA

I see you already split the Armadosia page to accomodate the 2015 update — good job! Having two separate pages is fine in this case, as the differences between the two versions are rather extensive*.

However, as the author played through the 2015 version we turned up a few issues that I initially overlooked. Two maps (28 and 30) received gameplay changes, and half a dozen others — cosmetic fixes (i.e. not affecting demo compat).

Please update armadosia_2015.zip to what we hope to be the final version (2015-05-27 15:10 / CRC-32 1a4c15b9 for the main WAD; the other three file have been updated as well). Additionally, Revved's ar30-242 needs to be moved to the 2005 page.

edit: the timestamp and CRC were actually for arma-old.wad — corrected.
edit2: OTOH, had I known from the start there would be two pages instead of one I would have ditched demo compatibility and saved myself about two weeks of headache from continuous demo testing. Ah well, who could have known that so many maps would require such extensive changes as to break the existing demos — nine rather than the initially expected three (07, 16 and 26)?

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ACE_DWF

This is 23 WADs that are available as one package (ace_dwf.zip) on /idgames but for some reason were split on the original DSDA. Maikl's ace_dwf demopak was also split between 22 different pages, although he grouped the demos together in his demo log. One of the demos (for RD1.WAD) has been lost in the sands of time; last year a slightly edited version of the WAD got its own page on DSDA along with a demo by me, though.

I propose merging the corresponding pages into one and extending the demo table on that page with an extra cell on the left, à la tables on the players' pages, e.g.:

bunker.wad | E1M1 | UV Max etc.


Here's the list of the 23 DSDA WAD pages:

And here are all Maikl's ace_dwf demos with the relevant portion of the demo log translated and included in ace_dwf_mn.txt, as well as the TXTs he submitted to the original DSDA at a later date.

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32 demos this week.

Revved: I've added the new WAD, but I've removed your old MAP01 demo because it doesn't sync with either version (and you just recorded a new one, anyway). Thanks!


Never_Again:

hellbnd: First off, of all the annoyances of managing the DSDA, the one that pisses me off every single time is WAD compatibility. Issues used to be infrequent and tolerable, but something's changed in the last few years. It's become an epidemic and it shows no signs of abating. Now, I can't stop authors from releasing public betas, and I can't stop players from recording on them, but I am absolutely done with trying to make the situation user-friendly, because it isn't and it never will be. To that end, splitting incompatible WADs is now SOP. I want it to be known to all that the problem exists and for everyone to share in the consequences if it isn't addressed. It sucks and I hate it, but there are no good solutions and my hope is that the incentive will compel people to pay more attention in the future.

As for hellbnd, I'm not sure why the updated version wasn't uploaded to idgames, but it was clearly intended to be. The text file has the added "Archive Maintainer" and "Update to" text in the header, mentions a 'crucial bugfix' and calls it v1.1. Regardless of the number of demos it breaks, it appears pretty definitive. The only thing needed to fix the potential confusion is to upload the newest version to idgames where it belongs.

armadosia: Current version added and old demo moved. Thanks!

ace_dwf: Unfortunately, the DSDA isn't set up for collections of WADs; that's why they were split. I did make the demos into a collection, though, so if you click through any of them you'll see the whole demopack. That's the best I can do without touching the code, which I've pretty much given up on. Thanks!


Xeriphas: Fixed. Thanks!

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Duly noted and understood. Your solution for ace_dwf is quite satisfactory, BTW.
Perhaps the versions issue you raised here deserve to be better publicized and we should make a separate thread for it? You could suggest concrete steps to combat this problem there.

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49 demos this week.

Never_Again: I appreciate the understanding. As far as fixing the problem, though, I'm not sure what could be done. Thorough and methodical beta-testing can take nearly as much effort as designing a level in the first place. Public betas make this easier on the author, but the process only works well if demo-minded players are a part of it.

The only suggestion I would make is to release public betas one level at a time, and don't release the next level until the current one is finalized. Releasing a whole episode or MegaWAD splits players' attention and guarantees some levels will get more testing than others. Beyond that, I think it's just a matter of patience, since we're all hobbyists with unpredictable amounts of time to contribute.


4shock: Fixed. Thanks!

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After working with Bloodshedder on verifying duplicates, I can say that dmcros should be renamed to cross2 and use cross2.zip from here, as it has emerged that dmcros.zip was a duplicate upload of the same TXT and WAD made five months later than cross2.zip. I'm going to have to update the text file for my demo, that's for sure!

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48 demos this week.

kraflab & TGH: Added and fixed. Thanks!

MD922: Isn't that part of a demopack? I wait to add those until the whole collection is complete.

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