Large Map Community Project (Next open spot TODAY - JULY 24TH)

[Death Egg]

I've recently been playing wads with incredibly massive maps like Vela Pax, Sunder, and Awakening, which are some shining examples of how far you can push the Doom engine even with using only PrBoom. I began to think that these wads were only done by one person each and how much they accomplished alone. I also began thinking of what it would be like if more than a few people worked to try and make one of the largest maps in the existence of Doom maps. (In terms of space taken up)

I figure since most of the major community projects are done (PCCP/Doom II Unleashed, Plutonia Revisited) or coming to a close (1994 Revisited, Progressive Fiction to a point) that trying to start up a new one wouldn't be as hard now with everyone not as focused on trying to do maps for so many others. (Which is why some other interesting ideas never got up and running)

I figure it would be set up in a slightly similar way that Progressive Fiction is set up, with pre-determined times for mappers to work on sections of the map, though rather than them being separate they'll just add on to where the previous persons work ended. Depending on how well the different sections flow/clash in detail, theme or difficulty, they might be edited for small changes.

Just for future reference, it would be built for Limit-Removing Doom II, with no new monsters or weapons, though it'd possibly allow new textures. On another note, it would NOT be going for incredibly copius amounts of monsters just because the level is big, so I don't want Sunder-difficulty or something. On another note, detail is welcome, but don't try to make this thing look like Gothic 99 or something.

[I would not go ahead with planning this project out without the support of at least a couple of other mappers. On another note it would probably be a bit before I'd launch it because of me not having Doombuilder access until around July 2nd, so there'd be plenty of time to plan how to further organize how the project would be set up and to get a list of people signed up to work on parts.


It's really late and I can't think of anything else to write. Any other suggestions or ideas are welcome.

Compatibility:
* Boom engine - Doom II.
* No new monsters, weapons, or other scripted things.
* We're using the GothicDM Texture Pack, though you're allowed to add in a few yourself if necessary.
* Mostly slaughter-map.
* Make sure to make relatively large areas
Story:
"You thought you'd finally gotten through it all. The battles through those cursed moons Phobos and Deimos, fought through Hell, single-handily saved Earth's population, fought through Hell AGAIN, and finally destroyed the damned source of it all. That should've been the end. You returned to Earth with a hero's reception. The military decided that, for your efforts, you would go off on a long vacation to Io to relax after the horrors you saw. You have you own private ship, as well, to auto-pilot you there. Finally, some peace. On the way there, though, the sensors started going off like crazy. The ship jolts to a stop, and you lurch forward. You look at the radar, and see a massive dot on the radar directly behind you. You decide to go outside and check it out for yourself..."
Theme: Large hellship, fusion of hell, gothic, and some tech.

SIGN-UP LIST:

JUN 30 - JUL 15: Marnetmar (Entrance to Hellship)
JUL 18 - JUL 24: <Nobody>
JUL 27 - AUG 02: TrueDude
AUG 05 - AUG 11: <Nobody>
AUG 14 - AUG 20: <Nobody>
AUG 22 - AUG 28: <Nobody>
AUG 31 - SEP 06: <Nobody>
[More later on]

CURRENT WAD VERSION

[purist]

I don't think I'll contribute as I'm not a fan of big maps but I might download the finished thing just out of intrigue.

As for organisiation it might help to refer to the exquisite corpse thread. As this was another community project to make a single large map.

I'd set the project up in the same 1024x1024 square format, adding squares for each new mapper to contribute. The main difference between the two projects is your mappers will be sharing their work.

If you're using the Progressive Fiction method of allocating time slots to mappers be mindful that you can't rely on the deadlines being met (as has been the case in my project).

[Archi]

Something like that?
http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?id=16170

I was guided by the same idea as you, but nothing good came of it. Too many problems with compatibility, balance, a lot of bugs. Still, good luck, let your project will be better than mine.

[Phobus]

ZDCMP#1 was a great example of how this idea can work. I'm far too busy with everything else I've been trying to work on to contribute though, so sorry about that! Good luck all the same.

[Sigvatr]

I think we could perhaps expand on your idea and encourage as many mappers as possible to dump their thrown out/scrapped/unreleased maps into this thread, then we can copy and paste them all into one enormous map.

[Memfis]

Sigvatr said:

I think we could perhaps expand on your idea and encourage as many mappers as possible to dump their thrown out/scrapped/unreleased maps into this thread, then we can copy and paste them all into one enormous map.

Good idea. I don't think that "chain level" from scratch is worth spending time on (gameplay and design consistency most likely will suck), but a bunch of unfinished maps thrown together can be interesting. And it is a good way for the mappers to reduce "garbage". :)

[Marnetmar]

I'm not so sure about a cut/paste idea. If things are cut and pasted, it WILL show.

[Xaser]

Having "participated" in both ZDCMPs (in a lazy version of the way Sigvatr suggested :P ), I do have to say that it can work out great but also has the possibility to balloon out of hand if some limits aren't placed. The 2nd ZDCMP was never completed precisely because it got too huge and chaotic for anyone to figure out how to connect everything back together. Shame, too, since it had lots o' potential ('cept the weapons -- those sucked ;).

If done, I'd suggest appointing one or two people as project moderators of sorts who would lay out a basic plan of the overall map, set some size constraints, and make the eventual decision on when to start wrapping it up. All precautionary of course, but it'd help in the long run, I believe.

I might consider contributing a small area or two to this, if only for the fact that I actually seem to not hate mapping nowadays. :P

[elic]

I'd contribute to this, it seems like a good break from the usual community project. I think having mappers working on separate sections is better than all of them working everything together.

[Sigvatr]

Well you could try my cut and paste idea, but I have a better one: everyone adds one vertex to a map and then passes it on to the next person.

[Marnetmar]

I'd like to join too.

[j4rio]

Huge, enormous maps may become very easily a tedious switch hunt, if not almost always. When doing something huge, slaughter is a stable way to go IMHO - you can efficiently use big open spaces and fill them with stuff while granting player movement rather than use the same space into many long connected halls hardly posing any treat to player with occasional monster popping up. AB used humonguous maps by far the most efficiently - filled with monsters to the core, major overabundance of ammo and a load of health powerups (Newgothic map 21, Shaitan luck map 28 - though a little buggy) making it friendly to demorecord as well as casual play even for lesser skilled. Sunder is quite different as it was originally meant not to be possible to demorecord one map in a single go (some maps took me around a week to get in a single go) but still should be a source of inspiration.

Anyways good luck, I'm a fan of humonguous maps so hopefully something comes out of this.

[Death Egg]

Sigvatr said:

I think we could perhaps expand on your idea and encourage as many mappers as possible to dump their thrown out/scrapped/unreleased maps into this thread, then we can copy and paste them all into one enormous map.

I really like this idea, although I wouldn't have it as a requirement, it would definitely be highly suggested. (Also, welcome back Sigvatr)

On another note, if they differ too much from the theme they could always be edited to match.

j4rio
Huge, enormous maps may become very easily a tedious switch hunt, if not almost always. When doing something huge, slaughter is a stable way to go IMHO - you can efficiently use big open spaces and fill them with stuff while granting player movement rather than use the same space into many long connected halls hardly posing any treat to player with occasional monster popping up. AB used humonguous maps by far the most efficiently - filled with monsters to the core, major overabundance of ammo and a load of health powerups (Newgothic map 21, Shaitan luck map 28 - though a little buggy) making it friendly to demorecord as well as casual play even for lesser skilled. Sunder is quite different as it was originally meant not to be possible to demorecord one map in a single go (some maps took me around a week to get in a single go) but still should be a source of inspiration.

I like this idea. I was too focused before on how difficult Sunder is to remember that it really is a shining example of slaughter maps in general. A slaughter map would definitely be a lot easier to handle both so there wouldn't be, as you said, tedious switch-hunts, and could easily have many people add sections without them clashing too much in design style, as long as they focus on large areas with large battles, for the most part it shouldn't be too much of a problem. (On another note, this way could easily help expand the size of the map by focusing on large battlefields)

Also, those of you who have said they're interested so far have been noted. :)

[Marnetmar]

I have an idea, to prevent it from being a big switch/key/door hunt, maybe the base of this wad could be to make everything huge? Like use huge rooms/hallways etc.

[Death Egg]

Marnetmar said:

I have an idea, to prevent it from being a big switch/key/door hunt, maybe the base of this wad could be to make everything huge? Like use huge rooms/hallways etc.

This is a good idea, though in the end it does depend on how large the mapper makes their part. It would be highly regarded that mappers make the areas fairly large though.

On that note, there should be a list of things that aren't necessarily rules, but things that the mapper should at least try to follow. Also, I'm going to begin editing the first post to put down the current variation of the rules that have been put down so far.

EDI: A thing that should be decided before-hand is what the main theme of the map will be. I have a few ideas, like maybe a hell infested island, (Beach, Gothic, Hell themes) a UAC Base that has been over-run, (Tech, Corrutped Tech, Hell) or, my current favorite, a large abandoned ship (half of the level, consisting mostly of variations on Tech) parked next to a large floating Hell base in the middle of some unknown dimension. (So the hell base could follow it's own variations on all different types of the hell and gothic theme) With that last one I'm thinking of the background being the one from Xaser's Lost Episode, with his permission of course. Any other ideas for themes are welcome too.

[Megamur]

Oh wow, I really like this one. I always have ideas for parts of maps, but can never think of an entire one. Having someone else filling in the gaps would be perfect. And I have LOTS of partly finished maps that could be inserted into this.

The only concern I have about people using their old maps and inserting them into one giant megamap is compatibility regarding sector tags and stuff. Mappers would have to be REALLY careful that their tags don't affect some sector way back in the middle of the level or something.

Also, would Boom features be allowed? Or is it strictly limit-removing, without any port-specific features?

[Death Egg]

Megamur said:
Also, would Boom features be allowed? Or is it strictly limit-removing, without any port-specific features? [/B]

Boom features would likely be allowed.

[ArmouredBlood]

This sounds like it could end up a very interesting mesh of styles, or a very big mess. Make sure someone on the team can get people to agree on what final edits to make. Perhaps I could contribute something to this, but I'm still pushing myself back into mapping, and it's proving hard =/ Maybe a series of speedmaps will help, heheh.

[Marnetmar]

I have a suggestion for the theme. You know how in TNT the demons arrive on a kind of demonic "mothership" made of flesh and bones? Maybe this could take place on/inside that ship somehow.

There would be elements of flesh, unholy temples and perhaps even some elements of technology here and there (Although my idea would be that the 'mothership' is operated by witchcraft/dark magic).

[Daiyu_Xiaoxiang]

lol, I suggest the map should be very hard to play with, lots of BFG, plasma and rockets fun, at least 10 Cyberdemons or Spider Mastermind.

Maybe new textures too! Chinese architecture maybe nice!

[ArmouredBlood]

Daiyu_Xiaoxiang said:

lol, I suggest the map should be very hard to play with, lots of BFG, plasma and rockets fun, at least 10 Cyberdemons or Spider Mastermind.

Just ten? heheh.

Maybe new textures too! Chinese architecture maybe nice!

That'd be pretty cool, I've seen very few oriental textures used. Only thing that comes to mind is a level or two of deus vult.

[Death Egg]

Marnetmar said:

I have a suggestion for the theme. You know how in TNT the demons arrive on a kind of demonic "mothership" made of flesh and bones? Maybe this could take place on/inside that ship somehow.

There would be elements of flesh, unholy temples and perhaps even some elements of technology here and there (Although my idea would be that the 'mothership' is operated by witchcraft/dark magic).

Ooooh, I like this idea. That was the one disappointment about TNT, you never actually saw the badass mothership that was mentioned. I'm heavily considering this idea.

Daiyu_Xiaoxiang
Maybe new textures too! Chinese architecture maybe nice!

Only problem with this is that there aren't too many oriental textures outside of HacX and that one Duke Nukem map. (And I think Shadow Warrior, too) I also don't know how much variation could be put onto the theme, really.

[Katamori]

I love this kind of community projects. Progressive Fiction was my original idea =) Also, recently I played the ZDoom Community Map and I enjoyed as well.

I'd like to join, but I promise: I'll do the best as I can!! (because it seems that there are some cases where I didn't do the best)

[elic]

Marnetmar said:

I have a suggestion for the theme. You know how in TNT the demons arrive on a kind of demonic "mothership" made of flesh and bones? Maybe this could take place on/inside that ship somehow.

There would be elements of flesh, unholy temples and perhaps even some elements of technology here and there (Although my idea would be that the 'mothership' is operated by witchcraft/dark magic).

This seems like it could be interesting. Maybe it can be like Icarus, with different ship facilities, but with a more hellish feel.

[Megamur]

I hope this won't cut into the TNT2 project too much, since they also wanted to tackle the "Hell mothership" theme.

And I would also like to throw my hat into the ring as a potential contributor, though I admit to having serious concerns about not being able to compete with the detailing of the other mappers.

[Mithran Denizen]

I have some qualms about the whole thing growing into an unplayable mess; if all this discussion turns into a project which takes off in a solid direction, though, I'd be glad to add a few smallish areas myself.

The Hellship idea might work well for this type of map, assuming that everybody would be willing to work within such a theme. I'd personally prefer a Boom-compat target over limit removing for something like this, but not strongly enough that I'd push for you to change it or anything.

[Megamur]

Maybe the map should be strictly linear, or at least have severely limited backtracking, so mappers won't have to worry about incorporating other mappers' sections into the gameplay they're designing.

[elic]

I think nonliterary would make this project more interesting. It'd be a challenge as a mapper to ingrate other sections, and I'd like to try.

[Megamur]

This is the part where I start getting a headache. :)

I had considered maybe at least having connecting areas where you could see parts of the other contributors' map areas from mine, but wasn't planning on them actually interacting.

[Death Egg]

I do like the idea of multiple paths but it would certainly need to have some limitations. On one hand if the map is too linear, it can get boring, but on the other hand if there's too many branching paths the player could get lost. Possibly, it could have it so the map would have a set main path, but multiple ways to get to each destination. (And, if there's any backtracking, multiple ways to get back)

Megamur said:

I hope this won't cut into the TNT2 project too much, since they also wanted to tackle the "Hell mothership" theme.

Well, who said that it had to be the exact same mothership as TNT? I'm sure Hell has more than one, and in varying sizes at that.