mcopo Posted June 11, 2011 Greetings everybody, this is my first thread and I have a doubt: Back in 1999, I used to play doom a lot using the DOOM 95 port under Windows 95 (of course). Because of the old midi-mapper, the songs were a kinda different from today and some were even better (my opinion). Now that I want to listen to them again, I was wondering: "Is possible to emulate them in modern source ports?" Here's a sample of how was it: http://www.mediafire.com/?c5tq8w3gp3to7pd (E1M1) 0 Share this post Link to post
natt Posted June 11, 2011 mcopo said:Greetings everybody, this is my first thread and I have a doubt: Back in 1999, I used to play doom a lot using the DOOM 95 port under Windows 95 (of course). Because of the old midi-mapper, the songs were a kinda different from today and some were even better (my opinion). Now that I want to listen to them again, I was wondering: "Is possible to emulate them in modern source ports?" Here's a sample of how was it: http://www.mediafire.com/?c5tq8w3gp3to7pd (E1M1) Sounds funny. Well, with a soundfont based midi synthesizer and the right soundfont, you can make anything sound like anything. I'm not sure what that's supposed to sound like though. Did you record that? What sound card did that machine have? 0 Share this post Link to post
mcopo Posted June 11, 2011 Thats the problem... i don't know any detailed specification of that machine. The only thing I can remember that could be helpful is the model (COMPAQ PRESARIO 524). About that mp3, I recorded it using dosbox and goldwave: I installed windows 3.1 with Sound Blaster 16 driver under dosbox, played the midi there and captured the sound using goldwave. 0 Share this post Link to post
Bloodshedder Posted June 11, 2011 Sounds like OPL2/OPL3 with Windows default timbres. 0 Share this post Link to post
natt Posted June 11, 2011 Ahh, an OPL. Welp, the windows driver used voice definitions not unlike the GENMIDI lump to program midi voices. If you found that data, then massaged it a bit, and turned it into a GENMIDI lump... presto gizmo! Not for the faint of heart. Presumably someone somewhere did it before though, right? 0 Share this post Link to post
Bloodshedder Posted June 11, 2011 Perhaps vanilla Doom wouldn't throw a hissyfit if you just removed the GENMIDI lump from the IWAD? 0 Share this post Link to post
natt Posted June 11, 2011 mcopo said:natt, could you explain better? It was more of a joke really. If you're good with a hex editor, you know what you're looking for, and you get lucky, you could look through the files related to the driver and hope you find a table of OPL2 register data. 0 Share this post Link to post
Maes Posted June 11, 2011 So essentially you want the same sound that you got out of your particular soundcard out of your particular sound drivers out of Windows 95. Seems like a stock FM driver affair to me: even today, if you get a card with a usable OPL3 mode and use it as a MIDI device under windoze, you should get the same results. The last PCI soundcard that had a FM synth that I recall was the Yamaha Waveforce, otherwise you'll have a tough time coercing those C-Media soundcards to switch to OPL3 emulation mode. 0 Share this post Link to post
mcopo Posted June 11, 2011 natt said:It was more of a joke really. If you're good with a hex editor, you know what you're looking for, and you get lucky, you could look through the files related to the driver and hope you find a table of OPL2 register data. I see. I searched about the genmidi, but I don't have any idea of where and how to search those files. And considering that I'm miles away from that computer... I'm only having acess to it in july and december. At least I discovered which synthesis it used: Crystal FM Synthesis (OPL3 branch). Oh! During my search, i've found a genmidi.wad in id games database that sounded a little (very little) closer to the one I want. So I thought there may be another ones out there. I could't find any... So I aprappreciate if anyone knows a genmidi wad that acts like Crystal FM. That would solve my problem. 0 Share this post Link to post
Xaser Posted June 11, 2011 Heh, this is what D_E1M1 used to sound like on my old Win98 machine, too. It's just generic FM stuff, but if it helps, it had an old Crystal SoundFusion sound card of some sort. 0 Share this post Link to post
natt Posted June 11, 2011 mcopo said:I see. I searched about the genmidi, but I don't have any idea of where and how to search those files. And considering that I'm miles away from that computer... I'm only having acess to it in july and december. At least I discovered which synthesis it used: Crystal FM Synthesis (OPL3 branch). Oh! During my search, i've found a genmidi.wad in id games database that sounded a little (very little) closer to the one I want. So I thought there may be another ones out there. I could't find any... So I aprappreciate if anyone knows a genmidi wad that acts like Crystal FM. That would solve my problem. If you want to just try out random GENMIDI lumps, Freedoom has one, derived from the openbsd opl2 drivers. Dunno what it sounds like. If you want to accurately replicate a SoundBlaster 16 when used under Win3.1, then I'll give it a brief look, if you help me out. First of all, find for me the exact drivers you installed (for the SB16 on Win3.1 in the dosbox) to produce the MP3 in the original post. 0 Share this post Link to post
mcopo Posted June 11, 2011 Thanks! I installed this one: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/7801769/SB16W3x.zip 0 Share this post Link to post
natt Posted June 11, 2011 ok the PVL files are compressed archives. i don't know how to open them, but simple hex editor view shows file name lists at the end of them. i guessed what was important by filename, used google to find the individual files, and downloaded them and peered through them with a hexeditor. midimap.cfg: contains midi instrument remapping tables. ie, "if using device x and a midi file requests instrument y, use instrument z instead". the data looks relatively straightforward, but you'd have to figure out which remapping table is in use (there are a lot of them), and even then, you only have the midi instrument remappings. this might be useful as a secondary guide, but I doubt it. ctmidi.drv: jackpot. contains 128 32 byte records followed immediately by 47 16 byte records. 128 is EXACTLY the number of instruments in the general midi selection, and 47 is EXACTLY the number of drums in the general midi perc selection (note that the GENMIDI lump in doom has exactly 128+47 records). the first 128 records are dual voice opl records, and the next 47 are single voice ones; the information might not correspond exactly 1-1 to what's in the GENMIDI file, but they're both programming the same target device (opl2/3), so the idea is the same. i have extracted just the above data from ctmidi.drv. anyone who is proficient with a hex editor, understands the registers of an opl2 (adlib.doc and whatnot), and understands the doom GENMIDI format, take a look. http://www.mediafire.com/?4ec20ywzpqi0kok 0 Share this post Link to post
Porsche Monty Posted June 12, 2011 Maes said:otherwise you'll have a tough time coercing those C-Media soundcards to switch to OPL3 emulation mode. Sadly the Win9x-specific drivers for these sound cards are purely wavetable-based, no selectable OPL output of any sort, so that "coercing" would prolly have to translate as "coding the drivers for" The earlier vxd drivers even use a proprietary gm.dls-like wavetable which's nothing short of disappointing. The newer wdm drivers get the regular gm.dls and that's about it. Real FM Synthesis is accessed exclusively for DOS applications, so if he were to run Doom95 under Win9x on a CMI-powered computer, he'd still be stuck with the standard Roland sound canvas sample set or a shitty CMI equivalent. CMI8738 OPL passthrough's where it's at, but unfortunately nobody seems to care enough to do it. 0 Share this post Link to post
Sigvatr Posted June 12, 2011 I really, really, really hate the way Doom music sounds when played using Windows MIDI. It's just awful. In my opinion, OPL emulation is essential for the success of any source port. Windows MIDI is for games like Sim City and Sim Ant. It just feels out of place anywhere else. 0 Share this post Link to post
mcopo Posted June 12, 2011 Well, if it is THAT hard to emulate opl3, I think I'll just let it go. I'll wait source port developers to implement more opls emulation because i don't want to have headaches with it. By now, I think I can create a wad with the mp3 records like the one in the original post. Anyway, thanks for help everybody! 0 Share this post Link to post
Ralphis Posted June 12, 2011 I had a SiS530 in my compaq and I'm pretty sure it sounded exactly like this. I wish I could make Doom sound like this again 0 Share this post Link to post
Lila Feuer Posted June 12, 2011 Regardless of what anyone says, this is what I grew up with here, upon booting up Doom shareware on Doom95 and hearing this song exactly as the OP posted. Seriously cool. 0 Share this post Link to post
fatal error Posted June 13, 2011 I still have a Windows 95, and when I play Doom 2 on it, it doesn't play any sound. I'm impressed my 95 can even run Doom considering all of the other old games that it's incapable of running. 0 Share this post Link to post
sonjoebatdoomguy Posted March 21, 2023 (edited) well all it needs it s a subwoofer and actual base loudspeaker like high fidelity or specific speakers for your computer to work and that's it. and also this is how i remembered hearing from soundblaster 16 with windows 9x if the bass and treble are balanced or hi fidelity factory made like well rather than a tinny sound outputs. Edited March 30, 2023 by sonjoebatdoomguy : i just want to make an additional note of that 0 Share this post Link to post
Darkcrafter07 Posted March 22, 2023 On 6/11/2011 at 5:51 AM, mcopo said: Greetings everybody, this is my first thread and I have a doubt: Back in 1999, I used to play doom a lot using the DOOM 95 port under Windows 95 (of course). Because of the old midi-mapper, the songs were a kinda different from today and some were even better (my opinion). Now that I want to listen to them again, I was wondering: "Is possible to emulate them in modern source ports?" Here's a sample of how was it:http://www.mediafire.com/?c5tq8w3gp3to7pd (E1M1) That's easy with gzdoom or lzdoom. Choose ADLMIDI as your music device and go down the settings, it's FATMAN 2op bank. There is also nice one from ESS FM synth that comes with standard Windows 9x driver and it sounds pretty interesting for some Duke 3D songs and not emulated in modern software yet, other than that these OPL banks are very generic sounding. 0 Share this post Link to post
Murdoch Posted March 22, 2023 48 minutes ago, sonjoebatdoomguy said: well all it needs it s a subwoofer and actual base loudspeaker like high fidelity or specific speakers for your computer to work and that's it. and also this is how i remembered hearing from soundblaster 16 with windows 9x if the bass and trebel are balanced or hi fidelity factory made like well rather than a tinny sound outputs. Dude, this post is nearly 12 years old. Why are you replying now? 3 Share this post Link to post
Lila Feuer Posted March 23, 2023 On 3/21/2023 at 7:31 PM, Murdoch said: Dude, this post is nearly 12 years old. Why are you replying now? Yeah seeing a post I made in here that long ago filled me with serious existential dread. That said this FATMAN and ESS FM synth soundfont sound interesting, I've been using OPL-3_FM_128M and it is very close but some notes are still off from how I remember back in the day. 1 Share this post Link to post
sonjoebatdoomguy Posted March 30, 2023 (edited) On 3/21/2023 at 8:31 PM, Murdoch said: Dude, this post is nearly 12 years old. Why are you replying now? never mind I forgot to spell check it and two most gzdoom has soundblaster opl soundbank emulation besides the real soundcards from the older isa or pci cards. and also it's still kinda recent but uh maybe this post might be archived though but still there. 0 Share this post Link to post
sonjoebatdoomguy Posted March 30, 2023 On 3/21/2023 at 8:02 PM, Darkcrafter07 said: That's easy with gzdoom or lzdoom. Choose ADLMIDI as your music device and go down the settings, it's FATMAN 2op bank. There is also nice one from ESS FM synth that comes with standard Windows 9x driver and it sounds pretty interesting for some Duke 3D songs and not emulated in modern software yet, other than that these OPL banks are very generic sounding. Exactly. 0 Share this post Link to post
sonjoebatdoomguy Posted January 21 On 6/10/2011 at 9:51 PM, mcopo said: Greetings everybody, this is my first thread and I have a doubt: Back in 1999, I used to play doom a lot using the DOOM 95 port under Windows 95 (of course). Because of the old midi-mapper, the songs were a kinda different from today and some were even better (my opinion). Now that I want to listen to them again, I was wondering: "Is possible to emulate them in modern source ports?" Here's a sample of how was it:http://www.mediafire.com/?c5tq8w3gp3to7pd (E1M1) yes this is kinda exactly how I remembered it when the soundblaster 16 or soundblaster pro2.0 is installed that is the FM 2op fatman using opl3 windows 9x. that is the only soundbank is available. 0 Share this post Link to post