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hardcore_gamer

What if Quake had been sprite based instead of 3D?

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One thing that has always turned me a bit off when it comes to the original Quake game is that the models just don't look very good because of how new 3D tech was at the time. I for one, always thought the sprites in Doom looked better.

So I was wandering, what if Id had decided to make Quake a sprite based game instead of a 3D one? Note that I am only talking about stuff like enemies weapons and items, the actual levels could still have been in full 3D (unless I am wrong?).

Discuss!

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I dunno. I guess it depends on how the sprites looked. If the sprites looked like this then hell no.

:img removed for hotlinking:

(.gif animation of quake monster model with doom's 4 frame walking animations)

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Although it probably doesn't count, since it's a decoration, but I know that the torches in the beta were sprite based.

Also, I can't see the image that you posted, 40oz. All it is is some thing that says "FortuneCity" on it.

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What if Minecraft used 2 million poly models, bump mapping and bloom effects?

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Something like this maybe (except 'mo better):
http://doom.wikia.com/wiki/QDoom

Apparently EDGE supports 16-angle sprites, in addition to some 3D constructs.

I never got it to compile correctly my OpenBSD system, so don't have any experience with QDoom. Well it did compile after some source hacking, but that caused strange rendering problems, so my attempt was the fail. ;)

More screenshots here:
http://www.doomworld.com/fanatic/qdoom.htm

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Then it'll be reminiscent of Doom64. However, I like the Quake models. Some could be better, but I won't complain. I love the game for what it is.

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DoomUK said:

High res sprites > low res 3D models.


Agreed. I definitely prefer the final sprites over the earliest polygonal models.

Would look totally weird with sprites in a full 3D environment, though. Early days of 3D were ugly, but what can you do? Had to start somewhere.

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Sprites suck. You need to have separate drawings for each needed angle, and they clip badly into the 3d world anyway. 3d models are the only correct way. The Quake monsters don't really look so bad, because:

1) Adrian Carmack is an excellent artist
2) The Quake monsters are spiky and ugly enough to be compatible with the low-poly model

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No one would care.

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I guess he's real fanatic about Quake. ;)

Anyway there's some Q1-style maps for vanilla Doom also:
- dm6.wad (very close, even uses a "3D" trick)
- castleof.wad (Castle of the Damned, i.e. Quake's E1M2)

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hex11 said:

- dm6.wad (very close, even uses a "3D" trick)

Heh, I forgot I made this. It was inspired by Tom Robinson's DM3.WAD, which to be honest is much more impressive.

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hardcore_gamer said:

What if Quake had been sprite based instead of 3D?


Carmack wouldn't of been happy with it because it would've looked like BUILD and Doom as well s any number of Doom clones at the time. He absolutely wanted to head for 3D and that's what he did. If you read Masters of Doom you find out that this was one of the hardest things he had/wanted to do with engine tech. Plus for the gaming community it would've of just been another Doom rip-off, because Quake 1 is essentially Doom in 3D, being demons instead of aliens.

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hardcore_gamer said:

So I was wandering, what if Id had decided to make Quake a sprite based game instead of a 3D one?


It would have been far less awesome

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Besides, back in the day when everybody played it on low resolution software mode (like 320*240) the models didn't look like much more than sort of slightly more refined sprites...

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Stroggos said:

Quake 1 is essentially Doom in 3D, being demons instead of aliens.


O_o

I think you ave the last part backwards if I'm reading this right.

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Clonehunter said:

O_o

I think you ave the last part backwards if I'm reading this right.


Interestingly enough Doom 2 actually calls the demons aliens.

"Your efforts have stopped the source of the alien invasion!" rings any bells?

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hardcore_gamer said:

Interestingly enough Doom 2 actually calls the demons aliens.

"Your efforts have stopped the source of the alien invasion!" rings any bells?


I hate how aliens were introduced into the storyline. Fighting demons with guns in hell is much more unique/awesome to me than fighting off yet another alien invasion.

That's one of the things I liked about Quake over Quake 2, though the military sci-fi atmosphere of the latter is kinda appealing.

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hardcore_gamer said:

Interestingly enough Doom 2 actually calls the demons aliens.

"Your efforts have stopped the source of the alien invasion!" rings any bells?


Alien doesn't mean little green men from outer space. It means "foreign". You can freely replace "alien" with "foreign" whenever it's used as an adjective; and with "foreigner" whenever it's used as a noun.



In the chorus, Sting isn't claiming to be from Tau Ceti.

It's only because of the Alien movies that it acquired, in sci-fi, the more specialized meaning of extraterrestrial lifeforms. But it's still perfectly acceptable to describe as "alien" demonic monsters from a hellish dimension.




About the Quake monsters as sprites; they would probably have been much more detailed and "prettier" as sprites. They could have had more intricate death animations, too. But the game would have lost some of its appeal. It was fully 3D and you could look up and down at monsters; you often had too (damn scrags waiting in ambush above doorways) and in a way, the blockiness combined with the poor animation gives a sort of Ray Harryhausen-esque charm to the game (though this effect is lost if you play Quake with a port that enables interpolation).

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hardcore_gamer said:

Interestingly enough Doom 2 actually calls the demons aliens.

"Your efforts have stopped the source of the alien invasion!" rings any bells?

Even the Doom bible calls them aliens in certain parts.

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Gez said:

Alien doesn't mean little green men from outer space. It means "foreign". You can freely replace "alien" with "foreign" whenever it's used as an adjective; and with "foreigner" whenever it's used as a noun.


I very much doubt that was the definition that ID Software was using when they wrote the intermission screens.

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Demons are still quite alien to humans if you think about it.

If anything, perhaps the people who beam down the cryptic message saying that the source of the alien invasion is your own home town just don't realize the true nature of the monsters.

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InsanityBringer said:

perhaps the people who beam down the cryptic message

No, they're really the spider demons.

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hardcore_gamer said:
So I was wandering, what if Id had decided to make Quake a sprite based game instead of a 3D one? Note that I am only talking about stuff like enemies weapons and items, the actual levels could still have been in full 3D (unless I am wrong?).[/B]

That would be a bad combination. In true 3D levels you're looking up and down often. So then, what do you have the game engine do with the sprites when you're looking up or down?

Do you keep them oriented straight-on to the screen, so they always appear the same as if you were looking forward? Then they start to look like they're lying on the ground or on the ceiling as the viewing angle changes.

Do you instead keep the sprites always oriented the same way in relation to the ground? Then as you look farther up or down, the sprites become "thinner" and start to look like they're made of paper.

Do you have a separate from-above and from-below image for each sprite, to try and minimize that paper effect? Well, then where do you draw the line at where it changes from the normal sprite to the above or below sprite? What viewing angle does it happen at?

The switch over to above or below would probably look jerky though. Maybe you need a transition image between straight-on and above, and a transition image between straight-on and below. What range of viewing angles do you show those at?

In short, trying to use 2D sprites in a truly 3D engine doesn't work well. Id probably would have been panned if they had done that. I don't think it's likely that there's a way it can really be done well.

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