Doom EU (alpha TC) [NOT FOR ZDOOM]

[Blastfrog]

So I'm salvaging resources from my old project for ZDoom, and making a vanilla version with redone maps instead.

The ZDoom version was started around November 2010, was for ZDoom, and the maps were based on the 0.4 versions. Around February I was becoming increasingly disappointed with how the maps were turning out. I felt that I was deviating too much from the original maps, taking too many liberties of changing gameplay and other things.

So around June 2011, I decided to pick up the pieces of the old project and make it a vanilla mod instead. I made a new mapset based on the 0.5 maps, and I am focusing more on enhancing them with updates of later versions of the maps, while retaining the feel of the alpha maps.


Anyway, this runs on a custom engine, a version of Chocolate Doom modified for my purposes. I'm making my own small modifications here and there, but the problem is, is that I'm not a coder, and I'll probably need a coder for this project, since a major part of it would be the engine features.




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[Blastfrog]

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Screenshots (continued):











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[_bruce_]

Looks cool!

[Average]

I think this is a great idea bringing it to Choco even if it is a custom version. I reckon it'll help to 'reign you in' and keep the alpha/beta 'purity'.

Maybe you should consider making a small list of things you'd like coded just to give potential coders an idea of the potential workload. You never know, maybe you could pick up some pointers for yourself that way from altruistic posts in the thread.

Anyway, I'm glad you've picked this up again even if you've re-thought your intiial ideas. I am really, really looking forward to seeing this come to fruitition. I'm no coder (or even mapper!) but I am an avid player so if you're ever in need of play-testers I'd be happy to help out. :)

[Blastfrog]

What should I do about maps that have both an entrance and an exit, yet only one way in or out on the overworld map? (see 0.5 intermission for what I'm talking about)

Examples include E1M3 Waste Processing (E2M3), E1M7 Quarters (E1M4), and E1M6 Recreation and Training (MAP10).

[Blastfrog]

Seriously, what should I do? Should I make it so that you cannot exit out of the entrance and have to beat the level to exit, or should I allow the player to exit through the entrance and remove the normal exit?

FYI, the original plan was to have all entrances be able to be exited from, as they would each correspond to a specific point on the overworld map.

[Marnetmar]

Keep in mind that the views of the buildings from the alpha title screens were only from a certain angle, there could've been an exit on the other unseen side(s)

[hex11]

Maybe those maps with only one entrance had some kind of super-weapon (plasma, BFG) or an artifact (colonel's hand?...) that would provide sufficient incentive for the player to explore the map.

[Spazman]

They probably could have. I recall that they were originally supposed to have the Unmaker weapon in the first Doom, but it was only seen in Doom 64. So did they have intentions of hiding the pieces of the weapon throughout the game like they did Doom 64?

That would probably be a good reason to make levels like that...
It'd also be cool to see the Dark Claw from Doom alpha be a weapon in the conversion.

[Marnetmar]

The dark claw was awesome.

[Blastfrog]

Even though this is nowhere near even an alpha release, I was reading the idgames rules, and "Modified id Software levels" will be rejected. Since I'm using 0.5/0.4 levels as a base, would this mean that it would be rejected? (I am certainly not using the final release versions of the levels, only the prototype ones)

[Marnetmar]

I think the prototype levels would be fine.

[Mithran Denizen]

I'd be inclined to say the same thing, but Ty Halderman is probably the only one who could tell you with any certainty. You could always shoot him an email and ask for clarification.

[Average]

Regardless, there's always Wadhost. ;)

[Blastfrog]

Some screenshots of recent progress, how's it looking so far? Does it look accurate to how Doom would've been if it had been completed following the alpha game design?

[Blastfrog]

Continued:

[Clonehunter]

Exploding Pinkys? This is really lookin' good. Can't wait for the finished product.

[D_GARG]

think that exploding pinkys are from the alpha versions of doom
lots of stuff they changed from alpha to full version

[Clonehunter]

Yah I know. I beleive the Doom Wiki had a GIF of the pinky bursting. I kinda wonder why it wasn't kept, even though maybe it didn't fit the monster or something.

[Marnetmar]

This is a bit far fetched, but since you're using a modified version of Chocolate Doom, will the levels have multiple floors like in the Doom bible?

[Blastfrog]

Marnetmar said:

This is a bit far fetched, but since you're using a modified version of Chocolate Doom, will the levels have multiple floors like in the Doom bible?

Not really, in fact, I've abandoned basing it off of the Doom bible, I now consider the alphas themselves to be a much more reliable source for what Doom would've been, since those were made when the game was actually being produced. The Doom bible probably wasn't meant to be taken too seriously, more likely just a rough guideline to make the game with.

Keep in mind, no real level design had even been started yet (that really small map in the Doom bible wouldn't have made a good level, it was more likely a very incomplete rough draft that they didn't use anyway). Furthermore, the engine likely didn't even resemble what it does now. The 0.2 engine does things totally differently than the final.

In this reboot, I've tried to get rid of as much ambition as possible, and just do a straight up completed version of the first alpha episode.

Here's a list of some of intended features:
*Super Mario World-like intermission screen. Doom 1 had a map of the base in the intermission for a reason, it was originally going to have monorail tracks on the level, and a marine-helmet cursor that moved along the tracks.
*Episode-wide keys. Normal keys are still map specific, but stuff like the captain's hand you can use in any level.
*Polyobjects. Certain textures and map structures in the alpha (plus the fact that Doom didn't use a BSP tree at this time) strongly suggest that id was planning to have horizontally moving structures. This one is a low priority feature.
*Different characters. Just gonna copy the player class code from Hexen. (there will be 4 classes instead of 3) Please note that id never intended Buddy Dacote to be playable.
*Probably a few other things I forgot.

Clonehunter said:

Yah I know. I beleive the Doom Wiki had a GIF of the pinky bursting. I kinda wonder why it wasn't kept, even though maybe it didn't fit the monster or something.

Probably because the original version looked like crap. The version of the pinky death that I'm using is one made by Cage for this project. (this one actually looks good)

[Blastfrog]

Sorry for the bump, but could I please have some critique on the screenshots so far?

[Marnetmar]

Sodaholic said:

Sorry for the bump, but could I please have some critique on the screenshots so far?

There's really nothing negative to say, mostly everything looks great and gives off that charm the Doom alphas had. However...



In my opinion, this looks a bit too much like E1M1, and the size, texturing and architecture don't really fit the Alpha style IMO.

[Blastfrog]

Thanks. :) I have already reduced the size of the outdoor area a bit. I actually did that as an homage to the slime pit in Romero's E1M1.

I know that the outdoor area is a little bit more Romero-ish, but still, is it still Doom-like, even if not Alpha-like?



Anyway, are there any coders willing to help out (even with just 1 feature)? I really can't get very far without engine modifications, and I have no idea how do any of it.

[Marnetmar]

It really doesn't feel Doom like to me from that screenshot, it looks like something you'd see in UAC_DEAD, which isn't a bad thing by itself, but it doesn't really have that same 'Doom' vibe.

[Death Egg]

Neither did the Doom alphas, really. The general feel of the final game wasn't even all there until the press demo.

[Marnetmar]

TrueDude said:

Neither did the Doom alphas, really. The general feel of the final game wasn't even all there until the press demo.

Well yeah but the Alphas had kind of a charm to them, that screenshot doesn't seem to have it.

Soda, if you need more maps, I have a Tom Hall inspired map that's been laying around on my hard drive for a while I can send to you if you're interested. Due to Tom's more realistic style, it's modeled after a sort of futuristic hospital, with abstract representations of a surgery room, a storage area for medical supplies, a waiting room, recovery rooms, a meeting hall, doctor's offices, etc.

[hex11]

Looks good. Might need some candelabras though. :D

[Marnetmar]

If you can't find any programmers willing to help here, try asking someone from Facepunch's H&S section.

[Blastfrog]

Marnetmar said:

Soda, if you need more maps, I have a Tom Hall inspired map that's been laying around on my hard drive for a while I can send to you if you're interested. Due to Tom's more realistic style, it's modeled after a sort of futuristic hospital, with abstract representations of a surgery room, a storage area for medical supplies, a waiting room, recovery rooms, a meeting hall, doctor's offices, etc.

Thanks for the offer, but my plan is to only use modified alpha maps. The map still sounds interesting, mind if you PM it to me? :)


As for the alpha feel, I've looked so closely into the alphas and their resources, that I discovered a unique atmosphere, in fact, the atmosphere feels more Doom-like than the final game. I could kinda see this atmosphere in the final, but the alphas bear this much more clearly. The original techbase atmosphere had concrete walls, brown, old and rusty pipes, blue computer equipment. I mean, it was all there in the final, but the alphas, being the originator of this style, show it much closer and more "pure".

In fact, I will go as far as to say that I like the alpha style that I'm uncovering as I complete the maps far more than that of the final.