ZDaemon turns 109 today

[Graf Zahl]

dew said:

following zdoom development means giving up on backwards compatability, one of the major differences between zdaemon and skulltag.

What? And sticking to a fundamentally buggy code base is better?
Seriously, ZDaemon is still carrying around some hideous bugs from that period.

[TimeOfDeath666]

Graf Zahl said:

Seriously, ZDaemon is still carrying around some hideous bugs from that period.

Did you report the bugs on their forum? ;)

Seeing this thread almost doesn't feel real, cuz I haven't had internet+doom capabilities and played ZDaemon in a while (so I've been out of the loop). Last night I had a dream that I tried 109 and there were 440 people logged on.

[DuckReconMajor]

So a question: how do I find games playing this beta?

[AF-Domains.net]

DuckReconMajor said:

So a question: how do I find games playing this beta?

Servers running the beta have either of the followings tags in the server name:
[1.09]
109

[DuckReconMajor]

Thanks. I just played some ctf with it. I love the new font, I can not scale the text and still read it and read the console clearly. There still is the problem of messages like ending killing sprees on top of flag captures, but that's not much a problem.

I saw in this video that spectating should have movebob but I didn't see any when I F12d to someone else. Is that not in yet?

[Graf Zahl]

eternal slumber said:

Did you report the bugs on their forum? ;)

No. They keep their source closed off so I boycott them as a matter of principle and won't offer any help whatsoever.

[Thadeuss]

Phml said:

For people who tried both, how is the netcode in ZDaemon compared to Skulltag?

I personally think 1.9 blows everything out of the water in terms of netcode. It's incredibly smooth and responsive, plus a lot of the new features are really brilliant. I'm not bashing the other ports, but they feel pretty loose compared to 1.9 imo.

[Ralphis]

Woo, ZD staffers registering to post for the first time about how their netcode blows everything else out of the water. Surely a sound, reliable opinion? :)

[Thadeuss]

LOL Ralphis, drop the bitterness mate it only holds you back. Just let it go man.

I actually had an account here a long time ago. I did come back to see if there had been a post to advertise the new ZD release (because it is THAT good), thankfully Earthquake had already posted. Oh and I'm not 'staff', I'm a mod on the forums but I have had no input into 1.9 or any form of development with regards to ZD.

I'll happily admit when one port is better in some respects than another. In fact I've posted in the past on the ZD forums several times that there are certain aspects of other ports I'd like to see in ZD. My honest opinion is that ZD = best netcode and 'feel', ST = best modability and ODA = promising, but in early stages of development so it's not fair to compare it to the other two.

I know I'm derailing the thread with this, but felt I needed to answer the point. Hope that clears everything up.

ON Topic: What's the biggest number of players anyone here has played this with? I have to admit I've mainly been playing the shit out of survival.

[Ralphis]

Thadeuss said:

LOL Ralphis, drop the bitterness mate it only holds you back. Just let it go man.

The only thing I did in this thread prior to your post was compliment a ZD 1.09 feature and answer questions regarding the engine. No bitterness buddy, just calling it like I see it :)

[Thadeuss]

Your post seemed pretty defensive mate, really for no good reason at all, but I'm glad you've decided to finally move on.

[Madgunner]

Graf Zahl said:

What? And sticking to a fundamentally buggy code base is better?
Seriously, ZDaemon is still carrying around some hideous bugs from that period.

Oh the irony that the creator of GZDoom is calling another port buggy. What's even funnier is the fact that he hasn't even played it ... ever.

Graf Zahl said:

No. They keep their source closed off so I boycott them as a matter of principle and won't offer any help whatsoever.

Haha, what an "unexpected" response from Graf Zahl. Could these "bugs" possibly be doom2.exe behavior such as wallrunning, silent bfg, os blockmap behavior etc., you know like the stuff that makes Doom well Doom and that 90% of the player base doesn't want fixed?

Phml said:

For people who tried both, how is the netcode in ZDaemon compared to Skulltag?

Here's how I'd rank them:

1) ZDaemon 1.09
2) Skulltag
3) ZDaemon 1.08 (old unlagged method)

[Fluffles]

1.09 is pretty much god compared to all multiplayer ports now. It was like zdaemons dying constantly then suddenly a burst of life came out and just ripped everything else to shreds. Plus I can nearly actually compete now!

[Csonicgo]

Madgunner said:

Oh the irony that the creator of GZDoom is calling another port buggy. What's even funnier is the fact that he hasn't even played it ... ever.

If anyone needs a reason to not use Zdaemon, it's proudly displayed here.

Asshole Admins and programmers. The same bunch that had a mole join #unidoom on IRC, /whois everyone and add their IPs to the banlist. The same bunch that claims better vanilla support than chocolate-doom, all without sharing any code that they create to help emulate vanilla doom behavior and lashing out at a fellow doomer for asking about the code on IRC.



I've about had it with the history of bullshit from this part of the community and how somehow it feels the need to register or post from nowhere to start flaming posters on this forum. I won't stand for it, and I don't think anyone else should either.

[Ralphis]

To be fair, I think the only part of the Doom community that Madgunner actually represents are the mentally deficient.

[dew]

Csonicgo said:

If anyone needs a reason to not use Zdaemon, it's proudly displayed here.
...
I won't stand for it, and I don't think anyone else should either.

the csg minds. this will not stand, you know, this aggression will not stand, man.
dude, don't get so protective and preachy, it's like you WANT the flames higher.

[Csonicgo]

dew said:

the csg minds. this will not stand, you know, this aggression will not stand, man.
dude, don't get so protective and preachy, it's like you WANT the flames higher.

In reality I want an apology for all the nonsense they've done to the doom community, to the clan UD and its members and to share relevant code that might help other ports that are struggling with netcode in general. Hey, it might stop things like this.

But I know we won't get that. We haven't gotten it ever and we won't get it now.

You're right. Maybe I shouldn't say anything more about it and let their past actions and the consequences of said actions do the talking for me.

[dew]

Csonicgo said:

We

i missed the part where you became the speaker for the doom community. also stop riding UD's dick so hard, this thread was posted by one of their members.

[D_GARG]

way to go: modify GZDoom to similar multplayer port as ZDaemon.

naah fuck that, just KEEP UPDATING

[Csonicgo]

dew said:

i missed the part where you became the speaker for the doom community.

Aaaand I missed the part where you became the defender for ZDaemon.

And yes I think I did speak for everyone here in that post. The Doom community thrives on open source, and to say otherwise is denial or outright lying.

[Thadeuss]

You guys can keep hating ZD and those who run it, but the fact is there's a fundamental disagreement about how to run the port and that's that. Let it go. It's been years, we all have better things to do with our lives than get so wound up about a port of a game from 1993.

If you can't stand ZD then fine. Go and play the plethora of other great ports that are out there and just let it go.

[Belial]

Csonicgo said:

And yes I think I did speak for everyone here in that post.

No you didn't. Case closed.

[dew]

Csonicgo said:

Aaaand I missed the part where you became the defender for ZDaemon.

zdaemon euro tourney admin, at your service.

[D_GARG]

actually I think everything should ahve open source, but I understand why they dont release the open source since ZD seem to have just as many holes to fill as InternetExplorer.exe

to solve trhat they simply have to sit down and add/remove code for the better good, then release it open source once they've locked the shit up

[HumanBones]

The main issue here is .. Madgunner making posts like those as if to represent the ZDaemon staff, who have already bitched at him for saying stupid things in the past (see: altdeath.) Say what you will about the ZDaemon administration, I don't think you'll ever catch anyone with any real significance / power making statements like that.

I'm all for Free UD, but let's be honest: lots of us haven't done anything to help ourselves either. Which is fine, who gives a fuck. It's really off-topic here. I have to say I've been given the opportunity to work on ZDaemon, Skulltag, AND Odamex. I've played in the IDL and now I am in charge of it, and whoa.. I'm in UD. I haven't been banned yet. Again, off-topic!

I'm also curious about the supposed #unidoom incident. I don't recall it!

[Xenaero]

Csonicgo said:

And yes I think I did speak for everyone here in that post.

Pretty presumptuous to think you have such a community standing and wide-spectrum knowledge of the (rather quite separate from this) multiplayer community and of relevant goings on that allows you to shoulder the burdens of a representative for all of us!

And don't speak for Unidoom, ever. We won't stand for it. ;)

[Ralphis]

I'm not aware of someone scanning all of the ips in #unidoom either, only mine :)

[dew]

Csonicgo said:

Asshole Admins and programmers. The same bunch that had a mole join #unidoom on IRC, /whois everyone and add their IPs to the banlist. The same bunch that claims better vanilla support than chocolate-doom, all without sharing any code that they create to help emulate vanilla doom behavior and lashing out at a fellow doomer for asking about the code on IRC.

so after csg's wild accusations, i go around asking questions... and guess what, he's FULL OF SHIT and just connects dots the wrong way. i actually got answers explaining a lot from UD members (regarding the ip snooping) and both phenex2 (zdaemon dev) and tm512 (the one who brought up the silent spawn issue and got proven wrong). the bug in question: dm spawns facing west create neither the spark nor the sound in vanilla, which is emulated in zdaemon, but not in choco. i bet phenex paraphrased graf's quote from this thread when he refused to bother with explaining the issue in detail. bonus irc quote when i asked csg himself about this whole shitfest.

<dewww> hey csg
<dewww> "and lashing out at a fellow doomer for asking about the code on IRC."
<dewww> is this about tm512?
<CSG> damn another one for my ignore list
<esselfortium> ....
<rnemo> CSG: lol wut
<CSG> there we go, he knows exactly it was tm512 and the lashing out he did, what a jerk

i've never been on anyone's ignore list yet!

[caco_killer]

How come ZDaemon is locked at 35 FPS?

[tm512]

dew said:

so after csg's wild accusations, i go around asking questions... and guess what, he's FULL OF SHIT and just connects dots the wrong way. i actually got answers explaining a lot from UD members (regarding the ip snooping) and both phenex2 (zdaemon dev) and tm512 (the one who brought up the silent spawn issue and got proven wrong). [...] i bet phenex paraphrased graf's quote from this thread when he refused to bother with explaining the issue in detail.

I really didn't want to get into this thread since I don't want to have much more to do with ZDaemon crap anymore, but I hate misinformation, especially when it involves me.

On the night of 1.09's beta release, I decided I might as well try it out, which is when I noticed the silent spawn bug happening, I mentioned this to phenex2 since he was in the server. He had done some testing in choco and vanilla, and it turned out that the issue was present in vanilla, and that choco did not emulate this. Following this, I post relevant parts of the IRC log to #doom-tech. One of the lines was containing something phenex said that was along the lines of "It's not our fault zd emulates some vanilla bugs better than choco :P", which CSG didn't like. I did not ask for the source code to the fix, I asked if it could be explained more in depth, and I was told to look elsewhere. I don't believe anything had to do with this thread, contrary to what dew says.

<phenex> you know. i thought you had fun programming and thought it would be a good excercise to let you figure out the silent spawns yourself.

Although, I have to agree with CSG in general, I think closed source is deceitful, selfish, not productive at all to the further development of source ports, and it fosters horrible bullshit attitudes and misconceptions you see from some of these players and developers.

With this being said, I will return to lurking these forums again.